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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #75 on: April 14, 2011, 01:34:44 PM »
I haven't seen one of those three-wheeled ATV's on a project for maybe ten years now; it's all four-wheelers as far as I know.

I was working at the TPC at Plum Creek in the summer of 1982 when a salesman brought out the first Honda 3-wheel ATV for a demo.  Our project manager, David Postlethwait, jumped on one and went ripping down a dirt road for about 100 yards ... when he tried to turn, he didn't understand how to lean, and promptly rolled the thing.  About three guys [including the salesman] ran down there to see how badly he was hurt.  As they arrived, David was getting up and dusting himself off, and he looked at the salesman and said, "We'll take three of them."

The four-wheelers are very handy if you want to cover a lot of ground without walking your legs to death.  I used them extensively at Apache Stronghold and at Ballyneal, but not very much outside of those two projects.

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #76 on: April 14, 2011, 01:59:05 PM »
Did Ballyneal consider Doak for the 2nd course or did they always want a different architect for diversity purposes?  Did Doak designing a course at Dismal River (so I've heard) have anything to do with BN's decision to select Hepner? 

Just curious.

Jim Colton

Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #77 on: April 14, 2011, 02:06:14 PM »
Did Ballyneal consider Doak for the 2nd course or did they always want a different architect for diversity purposes?  Did Doak designing a course at Dismal River (so I've heard) have anything to do with BN's decision to select Hepner?

Just curious.

Good question, Tim. As far as I know, Bruce was Rupert's pick early on. I ventured out to part of the proposed property in the middle of last summer and Hepner was the name I heard then. I think the developments at Dismal are more recent, but there are obviously other folks on this board more qualified to answer that.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #78 on: April 14, 2011, 03:28:19 PM »
BRUCE! (echoing to the tune of Bruce Springsteen)
Congratulations.

Speaking of Quads, Mahaffey has a good story about one and some missing teeth...  :)
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #79 on: April 14, 2011, 03:49:02 PM »
And sometimes you don't even need a quad to roll it!!


JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2011, 03:57:12 PM »
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how that cart ended up on it's driver's side facing that direction (given where the hill is).
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2011, 04:07:20 PM »
I cannot, for the life of me, figure out how that cart ended up on it's driver's side facing that direction (given where the hill is).

I can,

but you'll have to ask Jim Franklin for the details!!   ;D

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2011, 04:27:44 PM »
It seems to me that Bruce and Ruppert can and will decide to do whatever they want regarding the style and design characteristics that they would like to present.  Given that the terrain is slightly less abrupt or severe, I suppose the routing among the contours out there offers more options to go in various directions, or by the same token, allow them to confine more to a narrower tract of land, depending on what the perimeters are that Ruppert wants to maintain.  I'd imagine if they can melt down to a certain degree to eliminate the severity and cut down on blindness, they can also build up to match contour if there are areas that they'd like to enhance playing corridor elevation and contour.  I think Bruce has a great understanding of how to create that sort of feature shaping, either way.

As far as whether Bruce wants to design a style that is notably different or seamlessly blend into the style of the original, that is also something I'm sure Bruce can achieve as they see fit.  He has the skill and understanding to work in the Doak-Renaissance philosophy, along with the imagination to go different if he wants.  I've seen his styling in bunker resto and remodel that is artfully crisp and stylish, and he obviously had great input in the rugged and naturalistic styling that exists at BallyNeal.  

The question for me boils down to whether they want a seamless course in style (where possible cross-over from old to a new loop of routing can happen with playing style integrity) or maybe a more sporty, shorter, or longer one, to offer different pacing of play, and a course that plays more amenable to a public clientele.

Prairie club clearly has two styles of course slope and rating, along with different terrain charcteristics. At PC, there is no actual cross-over for routing.  You play one course, and enjoy its style and degree of difficulty and routing, and then you go to the other, with separate set of characteristics.  I suppose Dismal River has the same set of considerations.  

I just can't imagine any of the long time Renaissance associates not being able to reasonably emulate their mothership's styling-design philosophy, or go their own creative direction, depending on client desires, and what makes sense for that land tract.  Turf selection and maintenance regime may make a big difference in design approach, and there is where I'd be interested in what Ruppert and Bruce may cook up.  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #83 on: April 14, 2011, 07:06:42 PM »
And sometimes you don't even need a quad to roll it!!



You can take the city boy out to the country, but you can't take the city out of the boy.
 ::)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #84 on: April 14, 2011, 10:49:25 PM »
It seems to me that Bruce and Ruppert can and will decide to do whatever they want regarding the style and design characteristics that they would like to present.  Given that the terrain is slightly less abrupt or severe, I suppose the routing among the contours out there offers more options to go in various directions, or by the same token, allow them to confine more to a narrower tract of land, depending on what the perimeters are that Ruppert wants to maintain.  I'd imagine if they can melt down to a certain degree to eliminate the severity and cut down on blindness, they can also build up to match contour if there are areas that they'd like to enhance playing corridor elevation and contour.  I think Bruce has a great understanding of how to create that sort of feature shaping, either way.

As far as whether Bruce wants to design a style that is notably different or seamlessly blend into the style of the original, that is also something I'm sure Bruce can achieve as they see fit.  He has the skill and understanding to work in the Doak-Renaissance philosophy, along with the imagination to go different if he wants.  I've seen his styling in bunker resto and remodel that is artfully crisp and stylish, and he obviously had great input in the rugged and naturalistic styling that exists at BallyNeal.  

I think the concept of different yet complimentary is not lost on Hepner. The ground is gentler except for the ridge which bisects the approximate halves. This leaves the routing more exposed than  Ballyneal, and would seemingly give the architect more liberty.  With his resume at Bally and others, i'm sure Bruce is up to the challenge. With a degree in civil engineering and a MINOR IN ART, he has an unusual background which has served him well with Renaissance and will into the future. Having walked it with Bruce, my feeling is that the par fives will be "beefier" than Bally but the final will be an interesting risk/reward par 5 finish.  But keeping with Hepner's view of design, the course will blend into the surroundings, much as they did so successfully at Ballyneal.  Contrasting yet, complimentary.     

The question for me boils down to whether they want a seamless course in style (where possible cross-over from old to a new loop of routing can happen with playing style integrity) or maybe a more sporty, shorter, or longer one, to offer different pacing of play, and a course that plays more amenable to a public clientele.

Prairie club clearly has two styles of course slope and rating, along with different terrain charcteristics. At PC, there is no actual cross-over for routing.  You play one course, and enjoy its style and degree of difficulty and routing, and then you go to the other, with separate set of characteristics.  I suppose Dismal River has the same set of considerations.  

I just can't imagine any of the long time Renaissance associates not being able to reasonably emulate their mothership's styling-design philosophy, or go their own creative direction, depending on client desires, and what makes sense for that land tract.  Turf selection and maintenance regime may make a big difference in design approach, and there is where I'd be interested in what Ruppert and Bruce may cook up.  
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #85 on: April 14, 2011, 10:52:33 PM »
Ok , newbie alert. I tried to post with a quote but my comments aren't there. I'll post without the quote but what did I do  wrong??
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #86 on: April 14, 2011, 11:22:23 PM »
Here goes again... ???
The ground of the new routing is gentler with the exception of the ridge which bisects the approximate sides. I say approximate because, as it now stands, 10 holes would be southeast of the ridge line, 8 southwest. One of the interesting challenges is taking cart egress into account, something Bally had no need to do. The gentler roll of the land does reveal great features while leaving the routing more exposed than the original. Hepner seems excited about these features and his qualifications point to interesting solutions. As I mentioned before, he has a degree in civil engineering and a MINOR IN ART, a unique combination. He really loves blending the course and routing into the background rather than  pushing the contrast.  I think the artist is never far away. Contrasting, yet complimentary. That ultimate challenge of the sublime. 
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #87 on: April 15, 2011, 11:22:58 AM »
Jim,

Forgive my ignorance--I take it you have some connection to Ballyneal (my impression was you aren't "just" a member).  Do you mind if I ask what it is?  Feel free to send me a PM if you'd rather.  Sorry if I'm mistaken. 

Jim Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #88 on: April 15, 2011, 11:55:11 AM »

Jim,

Forgive my ignorance--I take it you have some connection to Ballyneal (my impression was you aren't "just" a member).  Do you mind if I ask what it is?  Feel free to send me a PM if you'd rather.  Sorry if I'm mistaken. 

Hi Tim:  No worries and no need for a PM.  Surprised someone didn't ask earlier. I am a very interested and engaged member, and I have walked the routing with other members, as well as, Rupert and Bruce.  Bruce politely listens to my sparse comments and thankfully has no intention of embracing them.  I did enjoy the conversations and found them insightful.     
I arise in the morning torn between a desire to improve the world and a desire to enjoy the world.  This makes it hard to plan the day.  E. B. White

Harris Nepon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #89 on: April 15, 2011, 01:15:54 PM »
I think it's really cool that all you guys who are members of Ballyneal get to interact so much with the owner and bruce about the new course. Such an awesome place that is only going to get better. Congrats to everyone involved.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #90 on: April 15, 2011, 01:29:02 PM »
I think it's really cool that all you guys who are members of Ballyneal get to interact so much with the owner and bruce about the new course. Such an awesome place that is only going to get better. Congrats to everyone involved.


In my one visit to Ballyneal, I was super impressed with the place.  Rupert came over and had lunch with us and chatted like we were long lost friends.  Very easy going guy and was genuinely interested in what we thought of the course and the experience in general. The entire visit was 1st rate in every way!!

P.S.  Our caddie was a terrific kid who was going to college.  He was Johnny on the spot with everything and made our day a delight.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #91 on: April 16, 2011, 12:16:44 PM »
More on the announcement, which also ties into Jim Colton's Best 36-hole private clubs thread:

“...we expect the new course will put Ballyneal in the category of Royal Melbourne and Winged Foot with respect to the best 36-hole private clubs in the world,” says Ballyneal founder Rupert O’Neal.

The rest of the article can be found here: http://fairwaysandgreens.com/articles/449-ballyneal-to-add-second-course

Jim Colton

Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #92 on: April 16, 2011, 12:20:17 PM »
Looks like Rupert reads GCA.

Anybody know what course that is in the picture in the article? Doesn't look very Chop Hillish to me.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 12:25:29 PM by Jim Colton »

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #93 on: April 16, 2011, 12:29:29 PM »
Jim, My guess would be Wine Valley. But that's purely a guess.

It doesn't look like any of the Nebraska courses. But, with that angle the picture is taken, it is tough to tell. Second guess would be Prairie Club.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #94 on: April 16, 2011, 12:43:28 PM »
Adam,

My first guess would be Prairie club.  Don't think it is Wine Valley, but I am just guessing. Not Balleyneal though.

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #95 on: April 16, 2011, 12:48:28 PM »
It may be the 14th at Wine Valley. My mistake if so.  Any other suggestions?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 12:51:05 PM by Brad Isaacs »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #96 on: April 16, 2011, 01:26:34 PM »
It is indeed the 14th at Wine Valley, a dandy little short par 3.   ;D

And as usual, the picture doesn't do it justice.

The pic on the official website shows the undulation a lot better.. http://www.winevalleygolfclub.com/golf-gallery#
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 01:40:48 PM by Kalen Braley »

Brad Isaacs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #97 on: April 16, 2011, 03:06:53 PM »
Why would Fairway and Greens put that picture up on an article about Ballyneal? There are plenty of pictures of Ballyneal about. I call this irresponsible journalism.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #98 on: April 16, 2011, 03:45:05 PM »
Why would Fairway and Greens put that picture up on an article about Ballyneal? There are plenty of pictures of Ballyneal about. I call this irresponsible journalism.

Brad,

Jim Colton has that same article posted on his blog along with a picture of what looks to be the land for the new course.




Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ballyneal 2nd Course - Bruce Hepner to Design
« Reply #99 on: April 16, 2011, 04:04:43 PM »
I've never been to Wine Valley. Who wants to guess what caused me to guess that?
« Last Edit: April 16, 2011, 04:24:46 PM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

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