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mike_malone

Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« on: April 11, 2011, 06:52:45 PM »
 I returned to Wildwood yesterday and came away with a less favorable impression than the first time. I had heard they had removed some trees and was excited to see the work. However, they were only trees in the back of a couple of greens and well out of play. As a result, I paid more attention to the trees remaining on the course. I certainly can understand why people plant trees on parallel holes, particularly ones that go in opposite directions.

   It seemed almost a necessity here because the holes were generally parallel, heading in opposite directions, and straight.


    Can we blame the original designer for not knowing that the game would evolve into more distance and that this means balls flying more off line ?  Should he have put more space between the holes ? Do parallel dogleg holes lessen the impact? Is it better to have holes that are parallel head in the same direction?

    I know Flynn for one was very conscious of this problem.

     
AKA Mayday

Kalen Braley

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 07:04:12 PM »
Mike for this specific example you mentioned, I would blame mostly the litigious nature of our current society...

...not so much the archies for not speculating what would happen 80 years down the road.

Kalen Braley

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 07:12:08 PM »
As an analogy, I present the following:

Back when I was a kid, late 70s, me and my buddies used to sneak on the roof all the time over at the local school.  We'd do everything and anything up there.  Play games, sit around and talk, look for cool lost items, chuck stuff at girls walking by, etc.  Well one day as you can guess, one of my buddies fell off and broke his arm.  And the reaction was unanimous in the form of, "you damn kids, serves you right for messing around on the school roof".  And we were all correctly scolded.

Nowadays something like this happens and the school gets sued, the parents are outraged that preventative actions weren't taken to prevent such a thing, the schools are deemed an "unsafe environment" and everything else under the sun to make excuses for their kids who couldn't have possibly been at fault.


You step on a golf course, you know balls are going to go offline, you may even hit a few offline, and you may get hit.  For the most part you know what you are getting yourself into.

Instead it turns into, they shouldn't have built the course like this, how could they not forsee such and such situation, how could someone get hit by a ball on the course, yada, yada, yada.  Its almostly all entirely a load of bullocks and so here we are!!

mike_malone

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 10:04:33 PM »
 Kalen,

     I  agree that safety is better if you can see the ball coming at you. But people also don't want play slowed up by players in the other fairway.

   I do think it is better to plan a course with few parallel holes that aren't close together.
AKA Mayday

Tom_Doak

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 10:09:44 PM »
Mike:

There are a lot of golf courses which have the same problem -- MacKenzie was particularly flawed in this area, as I've seen spaces on courses from Pasatiempo to Redlands which suffer as a result.  I don't think it's about more distance [and the resultant off-line error], so much as not visualizing that courses would become so BUSY.

mike_malone

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 10:12:44 PM »
 I think Wildwood has always been private so that may explain the willingness to route it so.
AKA Mayday

Mike Hendren

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2011, 09:49:24 AM »
Do we blame architects of circa 1940 warehouses for having 12 feet ceilings, thereby failing to anticipate the advent of the forklift and racking systems that accomodate 30 feet clearance for today's users?  How about architects of multi-tenant residential properties that failed to anticipate the need for washer/dryer connections, walk-in closets and a bathroom for every bedroom?   Or architects of sporting venues with no luxury suites? 

In hindsight, I think many golden age architects designed surprisingly long golf courses that held up quite well for 50 years, if not longer. 

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

mike_malone

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2011, 10:57:57 AM »
 Shouldn't the Haskell ball revolution have convinced them that more distance was likely? I believe that jump was extremely dramatic.
AKA Mayday

Matthew Petersen

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2011, 05:34:51 PM »
Shouldn't the Haskell ball revolution have convinced them that more distance was likely? I believe that jump was extremely dramatic.

Are you suggesting the architects of today should start building 9,000 yard courses since with the continuing advances in ball and club distance that will likely be a fair test in 20 years?

mike_malone

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2011, 05:40:04 PM »
  I think they should make them elastic.
AKA Mayday

Steve Wilson

Re: Should we blame ODG's for a lack of foresight?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2011, 05:52:12 PM »
What Tom Doak said.  I was thinking it, and then I read his post.   This is probably why he has designed all those courses and I haven't--typing skills.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

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