Let me dispel the myth, ANGC

[Patrick_Mucci]

Richard,

So we can avoid the generalities you're throwing out there, could you specifically identify the holes where they hit the ball on the green and it stuck there, like a dart ?

I saw ball bounding over many greens, # 15, # 16, # 17 and many others.

On what holes were they sticking ?

[David Camponi]

JC, seriously, give it a rest. Walking the course once does not make you an expert.

But watching it on TV a hundred times does?

Who said anything about that?

I never claimed to be an expert.  I said I knew nothing of the course until I walked it.  Even though, like you, I thought I knew everything from watching it on TV.

JC, unlike you, I didn't say that I know anything about ANGC. All I am talking about is that the greens are soft.

That is not accurate; calling those greens soft is stupid.

[Dan Herrmann]

Routing...   ANGC has incredible routing.  MacKenzie and Jones were geniuses.

I wonder if the masterful (pun intended) routing at Merion East affected Bob Jones at ANGC?

[Richard Hetzel]

In addition, ANGC is a WINTER golf course, opening in October and closing not long after the Masters has been completed.

Augusta, Georgia is not Florida.

Georgia borders Florida and August isn't that far away. 

Winter is not warm.  

It's a lot warmer than Philadelphia, New York and Boston.

I understand July and August in Georgia being unbearable.  
But, why does ANGC close so early and open so late?  Tradition?NO

ANGC and the Augusta area were winter destinations, winter resorts.

Or, do they close down so they can rip all kinds of stuff out (like complete green complexes) and re-do it each and every year?

[V. Kmetz]

For CH and othesr following

PatM has it dead-on with ANGC's "Winter" Season (which I believe is Oct 31 - May 1).  Despite whatever vacation climate conditions exist now, Augusta, was - even for Atlantans - a winter retreat for the affluent, notoriously so in Jones' days of founding.  It had amenities like the Bon Air and was a significant rail hub on the north-south lines to Florida.

While I'm sure the club has ample treasury to combat this now, that disgusting summer/early fall is murder on golf grass. Though the practice may not be continued these days, I recall reading they used to let the grass grow long and healthy to ankle/calf height during the summer off-season so a minimum of environmental damage was done to the turf during such months...e.g. I think its impossible to have the turf conditions they desire in a late spring to early autumn time.

But the more important point is the winter destination aspect.

Knowing Augusta though, I'll bet there is some aspect of the club that enjoys the irony of the Masters being the end of their season, when everyone is waking up, they are preparing for sleep.

cheers

vk



 

[Bill_McBride]

I know diddly squat about ANGC, but today "the ground game" is all about recovery.  Charl Schwartzel(sp?) will thank God he'd never heard of Pat Mucci before he played hole no 1 today.  Outside of The (Britannia) Open I can't think of any tournament where you see the ball roll half as much.  Isn't that what the ground game is all about? Please put me straight with as much colour as you can!

Actually, #1 was not on the list Patrick posted of greens where the ground game is not an option.  That list started with #2.

Both Schwartzl and Cabrera played terrific ground game shots there on Sunday, great imagination.

[Patrick_Mucci]

VK,

I'm pretty sure that the timing of the Masters was planned to coincide with the return of the Pros from their winter hiatus/leg in Florida.

ANGC in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb looks NOTHING like it does during Masters week in April

[Jim Nugent]

Given the severity of summer, what does the neighboring course (Augusta CC?) do during those months? 

[Philippe Binette]

It might not be a ground game course for the tour guys (even in the british open if the wind is down, nobody is playing along the ground from 5-iron down)

but for the average player there is more ground game on the course I'm sure
1, 3, 5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 18

[Sean_A]

Philippe

My thoughts exactly.  Folks have couched this conversation around pros.  Put an average 12 marker out there and he may spot a few more ground game opportunities, but lose some due to lack of control over the ball.  That said, Augusta is far from ideal as a ground game venue which is one of the big reasons the comparison to TOC has always perplexed me.  The combination of water, bunkers, severe uphill shots and knob/plateau greens is a recipe for wanting to put the ball in the air.

Ciao   

[V. Kmetz]

Pat:

Yes, I have seen some pictures in various older golf books which shows the course in those months (with carts btw, parked right off the greensites) and I snuck on there (no golf, just trespass) in January one year.

as to the Masters, there is a great deal of repeated provenance on why it has always been late march or early April.

Rice and OB Keeler thought the tournament would get the proper exploitation if it coincided with the sportswriter's return from baseball Spring Training in Florida.  Augusta was already something of a pleasant stopover, an active amenities town on the train trip and in those days, the writers cut out early and left the last 10 days of training to the permanent wire outlets.

And yes, it was the right time for the golfer Bob wanted to invite to play, coming home from the Winter Season in Florida.

cheers

vk

[jeffwarne]

Given the severity of summer, what does the neighboring course (Augusta CC?) do during those months? 

Jim,
Golf season in Augusta is basically the same as it is up north March-October
a core plays through the winter, but it's certainly not busy in january

ANGC's schedule is set up around Augusta being a winter resort in the 1890's-1920's (one day's train from NY)
Since a majority aren't from Augusta, they've never changed
but it's rarely warm in the winter

[Jordan Caron]

After reading Richard Choi's thread and this one, I want to clarify which Augusta we are talking about and who we are talking about playing it.  Richards is about The Masters setup but is this thread talking about the one we see on television during the Masters that Professionals play or is it the one that members play on a daily basis that very few of us have seen? 

I'm assuming the course doesn't play the same for the members as it does during Masters.  What are the conditions like for those who have played it?  I had a chance to play with a member at SFGC a couple weeks ago who was there a month back and he mentioned the course was softer and slower.  To me this means more aerial shots but I guess it comes down to a players comfort level with his wedges. 



 

[JR Potts]

VK,

I'm pretty sure that the timing of the Masters was planned to coincide with the return of the Pros from their winter hiatus/leg in Florida.

ANGC in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb looks NOTHING like it does during Masters week in April

I read an article that it was actually timed to draw as many sports reporters as possible when trying to build the event.  They knew that these reporters would be returning from spring training in Florida and that Augusta would be a nice and easy stop-over on their way back up north for the start of baseball season.

Let me see if I can find it.

[jeffwarne]

After reading Richard Choi's thread and this one, I want to clarify which Augusta we are talking about and who we are talking about playing it.  Richards is about The Masters setup but is this thread talking about the one we see on television during the Masters that Professionals play or is it the one that members play on a daily basis that very few of us have seen? 

I'm assuming the course doesn't play the same for the members as it does during Masters.  What are the conditions like for those who have played it?  I had a chance to play with a member at SFGC a couple weeks ago who was there a month back and he mentioned the course was softer and slower.  To me this means more aerial shots but I guess it comes down to a players comfort level with his wedges. 



 

or it could come down to the weather the course received the days/weeks before your anecdotal source played the course.....

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jordan,

You can ascertain this year's weather, from Oct to current date from a number of sources.

In addition, you can ascertain the historical weather and weather patterns from Oct to Mid April.

What you saw on TV last week is quite different from ANGC in Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan and Feb.