[Patrick Kiser]

Does the 9th at Lost Farm remind anyone a little of ... a reverse 8th at the Dunes?

I felt that way a little off the tee.  Without question I felt 3W here and not driver as well.

Agreed the risk/reward factor of going right doesn't seem to provide much of an advantage.  Perhaps with the wind it makes a difference?  Not sure.

To Scott's comment about this hole sticking out and being memorable for what it is not, I actually feel this even more on a few holes on the back 9.  Namely the 13th and 16th strike me as kind of blah.  I could be missing something on those though...

To Brett's question, my guess would be the lay of the land dictated this right section being a part of this hole as the routing back to the clubhouse was of more importance.  Ultimately a question for C&C, but just a guess on my part.

[Sean Walsh]

Patrick,

Completely disagree (especially about 16).  13 is a wind tunnel that, when the wind is blowing, forces two well struck shots to give you a chance at birdie.  The flattish green (as with 16) is a nice change of pace from the other holes on offer. 

16 is a lovely hole on some of the least interesting land on the property.

Re 9.  I agree with most of the comments here.  I found the gully to the right of the top fairway twice and the left half of the fairway once. 

[Michael Taylor]

I found the 9th to be an absolute nothing hole. Hit a 3 wood past the rough in the middle of the fairway and have a boring pitch into the green.

The 8th I think is one of the best par 5's anywhere, and it's fantastic that it's a true 3 shotter playing up to 550m! I loved the angle of the tee shot, and the 2nd shot felt a bit more demanding to me than the rest of the 2nd's on the other par 5's.

Also I am going out on a limb here and will say that the 5th at LF is the best hole I've ever played. It's an absolute brute. Anyone else love this hole as much as me?

Of the par 3's at LF I would say that the 6th was my favorite. It's a fantastic green with that ridge dividing the green into 2 distinct portions. However I'm sure if I played the 4th in much windier conditions, then my opinion of best par 3 might change.

[Patrick Kiser]

Patrick,

Completely disagree (especially about 16).  13 is a wind tunnel that, when the wind is blowing, forces two well struck shots to give you a chance at birdie.  The flattish green (as with 16) is a nice change of pace from the other holes on offer.  

16 is a lovely hole on some of the least interesting land on the property.

Re 9.  I agree with most of the comments here.  I found the gully to the right of the top fairway twice and the left half of the fairway once.  

Sean,

Oh I'm not saying they're bad holes.  Just not very memorable.  Without any wind (which was our case on Saturday), both were rather uninteresting to me.  That makes them somewhat one dimensional I think.  Agreed they break up the action and kind of build up the barometer for what's ahead.  Both of those holes feel more about the helping out the routing to me.

[Sven Nilsen]

I can understand the mixed reviews on 13, but I thought 16 was outstanding.  I'll reserve comment until the tour reaches those holes, except to say the green setting and subtle front left to back right cant at 16 was phenomenal. 

As for 9, I don't see the reward in trying to play to the right, but I didn't mind having that area to help a slight push.  To me, the play is as close to the central rough as possible, opening up a bit of the green for a left side pin and giving you a good line into the swale on the right for a pin on that side.  If you were anywhere to the left of the pin on Saturday, the upslope on the extreme right side of the green was an excellent backstop.  While playing with James and Sean, we tried a couple of putts up the bank and back with a great deal of success.  i would imagine a front left pin would be a bear in any conditions.

I didn't comment on 8, but thought it was a very strong hole.  To play the hole successfully, you almost engage in a bit of a chess match with the architect.  He asks you to stay right off the tee, which opens up the fairway for your second.  But it is pretty hard to trust your line with the most common results being a drive that misses its mark to the right or is pulled a bit and runs through the fairway to the left leaving a shot over the massive fairway bunkers.  On the second, there is way more room out to the left past the fairway bunkers, but the desired shot into the green is as close to the right as you can get.  Play safe and have to come over the collecting bunker or challenge the rough line and risk disaster.  I did not play this hole well during my three rounds, and I'd love another crack at it. 

[Kyle Henderson]

The 10th hole heads inland from the foot of a sprinkler-laden dune (to stabilize the sand while accommodations are constructed).


A true 3-shot hole of 543 yards, the 10th tends to play dead downwind.


The peripheral dunes lend the illusion of a constricted fairway, but plenty of room is offered.


Well-played tee shots that find the left-center of the fairway will shorten the hole considerably.



Straying too far right, one may be blocked out a bit by this towering sand mound.


The second shot will ideally be positioned to somewhere short and right of the green. Anything hole-high and right may call for a flop shot over the scrubby, treed hillock.


This small hump in the fairway might kick running approaches into the left bunker or wide right of the green, complicating the task of reaching the green in two shots.


Behind the green, one may find some interesting lies.

[Tom_Doak]

I thought this was one of the coolest green sites on the course.  For some reason or another, most everyone I played with seemed to get out of position to the right, and fumbled away a shot or two or three around the green.

[Sven Nilsen]

Another great "Coorener," the way the 10th green, 11th tee and 12th green fit together is wonderful.  On my first play, I fell victim to the right side danger, hitting a 3wood second shot into an unplayable lie in the small tree line to the right of the green.  The way the 10th sits off to the side from the fairway, and the daunting look of the bunkers on the short left side, makes this a tough green to hit in two.  There is a bunch of room off to the left that is not evident from the fairway that could be used as a bailout for those playing the heavy prevailing wind to get there in two.

I really liked the tee shot on this hole as well, the elevated nature of the drive to the canyon below looked really cool.  The danger being one might try to cut off some room on the left, which looks like a possiblity but in reality will only lead to a lost ball.

[Cue Mayhugh and others discussing the crows at this point in the round.]

[Patrick Kiser]

Yes, another good hole and this starts off the stretch of "farm" holes.  Nicely framed tee shot to a wide open fairway and a clever approach to the nestled green to the left.  The subtle bumps adjacent to the greenside bunker are a neat little feature

But ... in both rounds just about everyone was trying to understand what was going on with all that mowed grass behind the green and adjacent to the 11th tee.  Many were confused by it.  That's more than plenty for any recovery.  Was something planned here?

[Patrick Kiser]

Maybe Sven answered my question, but I guess it was surprising to see that much back there.  On a back pin setup it might come in really handy perhaps.


Sven,

What cant on the 16th?  We couldn't see anything to suggest a cant  .

[Kyle Henderson]

Patrick,
Here’s another view from behind the 10th green, showing the "lawn" that wraps around the 11th tee. My impression is that they grassed the area for aesthetic reasons. Since everything else at the bottom of the valley was prepared fairway, it would seem strange to have a an open patch of native ground here.

[Sven Nilsen]

Maybe Sven answered my question, but I guess it was surprising to see that much back there.  On a back pin setup it might come in really handy perhaps.


Sven,

What cant on the 16th?  We couldn't see anything to suggest a cant   .

The entire 16th green slopes from the front left to the back right.  Its very deceptive (almost an optical illusion), as it appears perfectly flat, but every putt on the green is affected by that slope.

[Patrick Kiser]

Maybe Sven answered my question, but I guess it was surprising to see that much back there.  On a back pin setup it might come in really handy perhaps.


Sven,

What cant on the 16th?  We couldn't see anything to suggest a cant   .

The entire 16th green slopes from the front left to the back right.  Its very deceptive (almost an optical illusion), as it appears perfectly flat, but every putt on the green is affected by that slope.

I guess I'll just have to back down and check it out at some point  .

[David_Elvins]

I thought this was one of the coolest green sites on the course.  For some reason or another, most everyone I played with seemed to get out of position to the right, and fumbled away a shot or two or three around the green.

tom,

How has Coore designed the green so that hitting right is out of position. What features has he used to achieve this?  Are they common features or unique to this hole?

[Brett_Morrissy]

I was lucky enough to get a sneak peak at LF about 18 mths before opening, as we drove in, Mr Coore was walking down the 12 the FW with his pink flags - the 10/11/12/13 area was shaped, and we thought it looked incredibly cool, a few specimen trees, and just beautiful short cut grass all around, and a really good way to tie all this opening b9 set of holes together.

Dave, I really like the way the green is tucked around the corner, with a large and pretty deep bunker and the dune/the trees [edit] guarding every approach from down the fairway, I would think this is the kind of feature usually saved for a good short par 4, so my preferred play of the hole after a few attempts, in benign conditions, is to hit my 2 nd shot down the right hand side to about bunker or pin high - and the further the right the better, we have been allowed tons of room to play away from the bunker, this leaves with a pitch straight down the axis of the green and up to 80 yards, a solid pitch or chip gives a chance a birdie.

I really like the feel of the green and 11 tee in close proximity.

And with 12 green, also found an intentional long shot thru the green, provides a relatively straight forward chip back to most of the left and back pin positions.

To me, number ten as a par 5, is a strategic hole that I have not seen a lot, and am struggling to think of a p5 laid out similar without water on the left. A very, very good hole IMHO.

[Bill Brightly]

No doubt this is a very strong par 5. I wonder if it reminded anyone else of the par five 12th at Pacific Dunes, where both have greens set off to the left and ecourage second shots played on a line well to the right of the green. It would be an interesting comparison. I'd give the edge to Pac Dunes green setting, but LF's green complex.

[Kyle Henderson]

The 11th tee shot asks for a drive up and over a hanging saddle, adding a bit of variety to the round. With the wind coming in from the right, trajectory control is crucial on this 405 meter par 4.


Up top, bilateral bunkers will ensnare shots over-shaped towards either side.


The approach is a tad downhill to a large green tilted toward the left/front corner.


Reaching the green from this right fairway bunker is possible with a fortunate lie. Note the busy movement of the turf short and left of the green.


Viewing from the right (the 12th tee) , one perceives the lack of greenside bunkering. Finding the green in two is a relatively easy task, but the ample size and tilt of the putting surface will favor those able to fire shots close to the pin from the left side of the fairway.

[Tom_Doak]

The 11th is one of the best second shots in all of the 36 holes of the property.

I didn't like the tee shot much, though.  I don't mind playing blind and uphill once or twice in a round to set up a downhill approach, and Bill often does just that in his routings.  But I could not get oriented for the tee shot at all, even playing in a group with the architect and the owners!  I hit a pretty good tee shot completely out of play to the right.  Either it needs to be a bit wider up on top of the hill, or they should have cleared a bit more marram to the left and maybe added another fairway bunker to the left, to get you aimed over that way a bit more.

Just noticed in the first picture that you actually can see the end of the fairway on the right from the tee.  From the more forward tee we played, I don't believe you could see any of that.

[Mark_F]

The 11th is one of the best second shots in all of the 36 holes of the property.

I didn't like the tee shot much, though. 

Tom,

Interesting that almost everyone else views it in the opposite manner.

[Bill Brightly]

I agree that this is a very cool second shot, and the huge, sloping green invites a wide variety of shots. To me, it sets up beautifully for a sweeping draw that will feed nicely to center or left pin placement, but it will also receive a fade into the slope.

I know what Tom is saying about the tee shot. It is a very uncomfortable feeling on the tee because the landing area is blind, and there is much more room long left than you can see. While the actual landing area is wide enough, from the tee all you see is the trouble: hill and fronting bunker that you must carry, bunker right, and nasty marrum hill on the left. It is one of those tee shots where you have to take all of that in, then forget about and hit your normal tee shot.

First time I hooked it into the marrum on the left and unfortunately found it...took 3 or 4 whacks at it and was in my pocket. The next two times I hit good tee shots and enjoyed a nice, slightly downhill approach shots and made solid pars.

[Brett_Morrissy]

My preferred hole out of these opening three holes on the B9, I loved the look of the tee shot from the first time I laid eyes on it, I really like the requirement of a committed tee shot, and I find a good sense of directional cues from the two sets of bunkering either side of the FW and probably in the back of my mind is the poplars in the distance assisting alignment - for me anyway - I also enjoy the challenge of playing over a centre cross bunker as a carry - great fun, particularly after a strong downhill down wind tee shot on ten.
I also thought the approach shot set up really good to a receptive green in its tilt back toward the player, but many lies will be played from and an uneven lie and probably downhill, so a tough shot, all properties have to a boundary, and this place is no different, in one of the preview threads (MM's?), there was some discussion re the tree line at the rear - Someone (Clayts?) responded that it was a good cover of the power lines at the rear and serve a purpose for the time being. I also like the monster green, which for a good player should be a birdie chance and for us less skilled multiple chances of a three putt for poorly placed approaches or chips.

And perhaps another three set of triangle holes.

Mark: I did not hear the general consensus you speak of for the approach shot on this hole - "almost everyone"?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Sorry Bill  - posted while you were posting !

[Kevin Pallier]

My thoughts re: #10 was that it was a good tee shot and greensite though the second shot was a bit ho hum

I'm with Mark on 11 re: the approach to the green and concur with others that the tee shot is awkward to say the least. The green for mine is too big particularly given that it's unbunkered. One could have adopted the same general design philsophies with a smaller target and still have the fallaways ? Even better he could have set the green much closer to the dunes to the right ?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Kevin,
How is a green "too big"? Why does it need a small target?
I think I have had 3 widely spaced pin positions on that green, which provides variety, ech time I play, each ave their own challenges approaching from the fairway and then attempting birdie putts - no matter how long they may be

[Matthew Mollica]

The 11th is one of the best second shots in all of the 36 holes of the property.

I didn't like the tee shot much, though.  I don't mind playing blind and uphill once or twice in a round to set up a downhill approach, and Bill often does just that in his routings.  But I could not get oriented for the tee shot at all, even playing in a group with the architect and the owners!  I hit a pretty good tee shot completely out of play to the right.  Either it needs to be a bit wider up on top of the hill, or they should have cleared a bit more marram to the left and maybe added another fairway bunker to the left, to get you aimed over that way a bit more.

Just noticed in the first picture that you actually can see the end of the fairway on the right from the tee.  From the more forward tee we played, I don't believe you could see any of that.

From a man who loves RMW 4, and also created St. Andrews Beach 13, Barnbougle 18 and Kidnappers 4, that's a surprising comment Tom.
To me anyway.
I do feel you'd assess the drive differently from the back tees on your next visit, as you suggested from assessing the pictures above.
IMO, the hole works well with the prevailing wind (from the right when driving on 11).

Another clue for the good drive line on 11, from the back tee, is a straight ball aimed on the peak of the mountain visibile in the distance.
I'm pretty sure that isn't a happy coincidence.

MM

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