[Patrick Kiser]

I thought the green is what made this hole.  Preferred this green to what I saw on the 13th or 16th for comparison.

This green lulls you into a false sense of security I feel.

Yet you'll be hard pressed to score well because it is tough getting it to the hole on so much surface AND subtle undulations.  Must be a killer hole with some wind.  I don't think the hole tilts back to front either.

Ya, the tee shot does feel a little uncomfortable, but it is rare when a drive down the middle on a blind hole doesn't work.  So that was my strategy and it paid off.  Agreeing with Tom it's a little narrow, but more if you chose the wrong tee.  With the right tee, I saw things open up.

Question for me is does this hole tend to get a tailwind?  quartering wind? headwind?  I'll guess a quartering wind more.

 

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin,
How is a green "too big"? Why does it need a small target?
I think I have had 3 widely spaced pin positions on that green, which provides variety, ech time I play, each ave their own challenges approaching from the fairway and then attempting birdie putts - no matter how long they may be

Brett

For mine - it just felt on a peripheral sense too manufactured and overtly big. Just my opinion of course though it surprises me that he didn't use the dunes to the right of the hole as the target area ? Why place the green where he did when there is much better land nearby ?

[Kyle Henderson]

Kevin,

I also thought the hole might be improved by pushing the green further right, or perhaps if they left the ground alone up to the right edge of the current green instead of turfing that area.

The wind-breaking tree lines are an eyesore, IMHO. I'd thin them out. The other trees on property have a much more weathered and ancient look to them, not to mention their less coordinated (natural) placement.

[Bill Brightly]

Kevin,

The wind-breaking tree lines are an eyesore, IMHO. I'd thin them out. The other trees on property have a much more weathered and ancient look to them, not to mention their less coordinated (natural) placement.

Remove the trees? Then you would have an unobstructed view of that ugly mountain range in the distance...

[Tom_Doak]

Another clue for the good drive line on 11, from the back tee, is a straight ball aimed on the peak of the mountain visibile in the distance.
I'm pretty sure that isn't a happy coincidence.

MM

Matthew:

It might just be a happy coincidence, since Mr. Coore was my partner in the match described above, and he did not tell me to aim at the mountain in the distance.  [I'm not even sure we could see it from the middle tee we were playing, actually.]

I have asked Bill before about such things and he has said he doesn't worry much about lining tee shots up with long-distance views, as I try to do.  However, it's possible he did it at Lost Farm, or one of his crew did it for him; he just didn't mention it to me.

Of the blind tee shots you mentioned that I've built, the 18th at Barnbougle is the only one without a clear visual of where you'd like to drive the ball -- partly because the tees were separated left and right, and the correct line for one is wrong for another.  I think the Lost Farm hole had a bit of the same problem ... the tee we played was left of the line from the back tee, so you have to play further left than you think, with the dune more in your face.



Kevin:

If the green had been any further to the right, the next hole wouldn't have worked at all, and he would have had to build two holes down on the flats instead of the one long one.

[Bill Brightly]

Speaking of the next hole working...get ready for another dogleg/partially blind tee shot, a combination that I really question on destination courses... (Hint, I am about to lose another golf ball after a superbly struck tee shot )

[Kyle Henderson]

The 516 meters-long 12th hole marks the last inland test before we plunge back into the dunes. Prevailing winds are with the player from the tee.


The fairway is spacious, turning left past a large port-side bunker.


Over-aggression will exact a just penalty.


Round the bend, staggered central bunkers and an expansive waste area along the right edge add interest to the second shot for those unable to reach the green.


In the waste bunker, one may find grasses, shells or pebbles around their ball. Still, one still has a chance of finding the green with a single stroke.


The 12th green is very low in profile. Players may elect to play long, left or short of the green with their approach to leave a simple up and down. This bunker protects the right side.


Looking from behind, one can appreciate the understated shaping.

[Bill Brightly]

[
Over-aggression will exact a just penalty.


The problem I have here is that simply carrying this bunker is not good enough, there is about 30 yards of DEEP marrum grass over the bunker. My first drive flew well over the bunker, I thought it was a great line, expected to be able to reach a par 5 in two shots, but the ball was no where to be found. The proper play (for me) is the right edge of the bunker.

I know, a hole is only blind once, but...

[Scott Warren]

I'm inclined to agree, Bill.

I have an issue generally with bunkers in a position like this that are not to be carried.

You see them on the heathlands as well a fair bit - 14 at NZGC is an example - where carrying the bunker isn't enough, it;s the 30m of heath behind it.

What I will say of Kyle's pics above is that there is no way a pic can adequately indicate just how bloody wide that fairway is. In one round I aimed down the middle, wind from the left and hit the most godawful push slice I can recall hitting in my life, which caught the wind and went hard and it STILL found the fairway!

[Bill Brightly]

I guess I could argue this both ways. One way is if I can't carry the ball 250 yards in the air, I have no business challenging this bunker, and it actually saves a few pulled drives from becoming lost balls in the marrum grass.

But what I'd rather see is another bunker or two over the first one, even if they are hidden and/or penal. I'll pay a price for failing to pull off a heroic shot, but a lost ball just sucks. I almost feel like the architect plyed a trick on me, the architectual version of pulling a chair out when someone sits down...

What do the rest of you guys think?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Bill & Scott,
I understand your point, extended rough past a carry bunker is difficult to justify.

What does not appear obvious to me on the tee is that it is in fact a carry bunker, as Scott says, the fairway is MASSIVELY wide, for me, the tee shot says drive as close as you can to the bunker for the tightest, and best line for the next shot, BUT do not try to carry it - if you were to further pull it apart logically on the tee, in addition to the massive wide fairway, the fairway would be even wider behind the bunker to allow for a carry - I am not sure that this is the information being offered to the golfer on the tee. The length of the marram grass on the top lips of the bunkers is also a hint, it is long/full length from left to right about 75% and then the final right edge is trimmed and to me this is the only area of that bunker that can be carried - you had better be accurate, and Bill with your beautiful draw, it is only asking for trouble. So for me, this sounds like classic Mackenzie strategy (sans rough), where the most advantageous line is the most challenging and requires the most skill - just to the edge of the bunker or over the right edge with as much width as you need away from the troublesome bunker but extending the length of the hole. Surely the previous hole has you in this frame of mind - that anything wide of the edge bunkers is trouble and risky to carry also.

After the rumbling and large dunes of the previous stretch of holes, this lower land catchs me unaware and it is not until I am futher thru the hole, do I appreciate the break in the big undualtions, and that the bunkering is really nice and the big centreline trap - got me big time, some great pins of the right side of the green and then lovely subtle pins for good short game play on the back and left sections, and I found on my final round (I think) that playing long thru the green (to a rear left pin)took all the trouble out of play and left me with a simple up and down from the back, the front of the green is a little treacherous IMO with a little false front?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Here is a pic from our tour guide look back toward the corner bunker: note the cut away rough behind the big bunker over the RHS and Bill there are two bunkers there, although their intentions do not appear to be the same as your suggestion.

[Kevin Pallier]

Kevin:

If the green had been any further to the right, the next hole wouldn't have worked at all, and he would have had to build two holes down on the flats instead of the one long one.

Tom

I beg to differ. He could have built a shorter #11 up the dune. One could still then have had a relatively easy walk to a different tee area.

[Kevin Pallier]

What do the rest of you guys think?

Bill

I thought #12 is an average P5 to say the least - and a real let down from the other P5's on the property. The setting of the green site is most underwhelming. One could have considered possibly using the wetlands mores or brought the green site back a bit instead ?

for mine #9 - #12 are the least impressive stretch of holes at LF. Fortunately it starts to pick up again at the 13th tee.

[Sean Walsh]

I really like these three holes.

10 is a wonderful par 5.  The tee shot lures you into going right towards the mound.  If you are a shorter hitter like me and looking to lay up your second shot this makes positioning that second shot more difficult.  For the longer hitters avoiding the mound you are inclined to look for the centre or left of the fairway to avoid the mound, consequently a lack of precision or erring left makes the second shot a more difficult proposition.  A very good green.

11 Plenty of interest in the drive.  Maybe my mind is playing tricks but it really reminds me of the drive on the 10th at Muirfield.  Can't find a picture of it at the moment to check.  Really good second shot that sets up for a wood or long iron for me.  I would imagine it usually plays with a cross wind and like the large green which allows plenty of inventiveness with the chip/pitch/long putt.  Helps that I holed out a pitch from ten yards off the back on the Saturday

12 That first picture of Kyle's is just about an exact copy of the 16th at Port Fairy.  Add the ocean down the right side (not in play) of that fairway and it's an exact copy of the drive.  Ample fairway to find and the cross bunkers were in just the right spot for me at least.  Had to make a decision whether to go for the green with a wood or play safe with a 6 iron.  A good solid hole.  Maybe not in the best par 5's you'll ever play but it is holes like this that quality course are built on.

Patrick,

I like the greens on 13 and 16 for the reason that they are remarkably flat and feel like someone just ran a mower over them.  When all around them are wavy movement I enjoy the change of pace and subtlety.

[Patrick Kiser]

One question: was anyone able to even try to get home in two?

Now throw in the wind that should be coming in head on for your second...

One of the few true 3 shotters into the green I've seen in a while.  Your positioning second is pretty forgiving I think.

However ... I have a feeling the low ball player can run it in for their second.

The wind seems key on this hole.

[Tom_Doak]

Bill Brightly:

You'll probably be pleased to learn that when I played with Bill Coore on opening day, he lost his tee shot on #12 in the marram on the left.

He was not trying to play over the bunker, though ... he pulled it at least 20 yards left of where he was aiming.  Remarkably, it was the only ball he lost all day in a 30-MPH wind.  I lost a few more than that; it was a tough day.

[Bill Brightly]

Bill Brightly:

You'll probably be pleased to learn that when I played with Bill Coore on opening day, he lost his tee shot on #12 in the marram on the left.

He was not trying to play over the bunker, though ... he pulled it at least 20 yards left of where he was aiming.  Remarkably, it was the only ball he lost all day in a 30-MPH wind.  I lost a few more than that; it was a tough day.

Tom,

Oh yeah, that makes my day!


Brett,

I forgot about the two bunkers on the left but I bet they get very few balls due to the height of the marrum grass. I wonder what people think about the idea of removing most of the marrum and allowing those hidden bunkers to serve as a deterrent?

Patrick,
The only way to get home in two is to cut the corner, and as we can see from the pictures, this is really not an option except for the most extremely long hitters.I also think the outside right bunkers come into play for very long hitters who fly the right edge of the left bunker. All the more reason to remove the marrum around the two bunkers shown in Brettt's picture, IMO. I think it is better to entice A players to take a risk on the tee (and they will bite on a dogleg left par 5...) rather than forcing them to hit three sensible shots.

[Kyle Henderson]

The 13 hole is a par 4 of 382 meters running directly into the prevailing wind. Most tee shots are played diagonally into a wide, flat valley between towering (!!!) sand dunes.


Continuing in the vein of earlier holes, the fairway here is monstrously wide. Anything else would seem silly, since the broad valley floor is so well-defined. Still, I am a bit surprised that no central bunkers were placed to break up the large expanse of fairway. Such restraint!


There is a sandy hazard on the inside edge of the fairway, and theoretically shots that end up near to but not within this bunker can more easily avoid the other sand pit right of the green. However, the greenside bunker is set too far from much of the playing surface to influence play on most occasions.


Behind the hole, golfers will quickly ascend as they march on toward the sea.


Here is another view from above and behind the 13th green.

[Patrick Kiser]

The spine from back to front makes this green.  One of those greens where going to the back and having a front pin to putt towards can be fun.

I liked the amphitheatre feel to the tee shot more than anything though.  However, it does not really matter where you land it on the fairway ... as long as it's on the fairway.

[Kevin Pallier]

I liked #13 - a nice angled drive and transition back into the dunes.

[Kyle Henderson]

The spine from back to front makes this green.  One of those greens where going to the back and having a front pin to putt towards can be fun.

I liked the amphitheatre feel to the tee shot more than anything though.  However, it does not really matter where you land it on the fairway ... as long as it's on the fairway.

Note the Bandonesque trolleys that can be rolled directly across the greens.

[Kyle Henderson]

Sitting up behind the 13th, hole # “13A”exists in part because Mike Keiser was not overly enamored with the 17th hole (according to legend). It can be played from several different angles and distances, maxing out at 121 meters.


From the upper tees, one can clearly distinguish how the large green wraps around the fronting bunker.


The view behind the upper tee (if you climb a few feet through the scrub), is quite spectacular. Some day, a golf course may run through the property below as well.


More sand is found behind the putting surface, for those who misjudge the wind and the change in elevation from tee-to-green.


From the lower tees, it is easier to distinguish the predominant slopes within the green’s boundaries. Generally, the right side is lower than the left and the front lower than the rear.


Many will find a shot from the front bunker easier to contend with than a chip or pitch running up and over the false front of the green.

[Matthew Mollica]

Really cool little hole and very well photographed Kyle.

The prospect of course #3 on that land next door had me drooling too....

MM

[Patrick Kiser]

One of the funner putts from this course coming on the upper tier to the left of the front greenside bunker to the lower pin to the right.

And ... what a panorama!

Scott better NOT resurface my divot of a shot pic from the afternoon round...

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