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PThomas

199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Bill_McBride

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 02:58:52 PM »
Maybe because Denver is out WEST, unlike Chicago!  :)

(I never did get that Western Open in Chicago thingy..........)

Michael Wharton-Palmer

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 03:00:08 PM »
As much as I hate to see the event leave golf mad Chicago...I cant say I will miss the bland architecture of Cog Hill at all.
Butkler National was a more intersting course to see on TV , and to play.
I guess all that time and effort the Jemsek family have put into Chcgao golf are for naught......that seems a little unfair, that family has bent over backwards to help golf and that get rewarded by this........Just have to love the integrity of the PGA Tour.

David_Tepper

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2011, 03:02:07 PM »
Bill McBride -

The Western Open was held in Portland in 1955 and San Francisco (at the Presidio GC!) in 1956.

DT

PCCraig

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2011, 03:03:17 PM »
I would actually rather watch the tournament go someplace outside of Chicago rather than watch what we saw last year at Cog Hill.

The Glen Club & Kemper Lakes? Huh?

The whole "well if Butler lets in a women XYZ would love to host a tournament there" is getting old fast. They aren't going to let in a woman or a minority, especially for a PGA Tour event.
H.P.S.

John Kavanaugh

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2011, 03:10:02 PM »
I would actually rather watch the tournament go someplace outside of Chicago rather than watch what we saw last year at Cog Hill.

The Glen Club & Kemper Lakes? Huh?

The whole "well if Butler lets in a women XYZ would love to host a tournament there" is getting old fast. They aren't going to let in a woman or a minority, especially for a PGA Tour event.

Pat,

Butler has minority members. 

PCCraig

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2011, 03:11:38 PM »
I would actually rather watch the tournament go someplace outside of Chicago rather than watch what we saw last year at Cog Hill.

The Glen Club & Kemper Lakes? Huh?

The whole "well if Butler lets in a women XYZ would love to host a tournament there" is getting old fast. They aren't going to let in a woman or a minority, especially for a PGA Tour event.

Pat,

Butler has minority members. 

Was not aware that was the case. Must of been pretty recent.

Thanks.
H.P.S.

Tony_Chapman

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2011, 03:15:24 PM »
Will there be a local rule you can carry no more than a 5-iron at Cherry Hills? Or, is that place now 7,300 yards (6,700 in altitude).

Andy Stamm

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2011, 03:34:16 PM »
The Western Open has been out 'west' a number of times to places including Texas, Utah, California (SF and LA), Oregon, and Arizona. It was also once played in New York.

It's called the Western Open because it's run by the Western Golf Association. It's the WGA because in the 1890s when it began Chicago and the vicinity were the 'West.' It was started to represent/ make rules for the clubs west of the USGAs base area which was the NYC area.

For most of its history the Western Open was a very important tournament and, like many of those, it rotated. It's fixed location era roughly aligns with its fall in importance. With the return to prominence the tournament received from its place in the FedEx cup (and the top players that will play because of that), there's been a pull to return the rotating venue model. This has already started to some degree with the 2008 tournament in St Louis (Bellerive) and 2012 in Indianapolis (Crooked Stick) after being in a fixed location for 30 years.

Cog Hill hasn't done a good job of courting/keeping happy the WGA or the USGA. They seem to want big events, but they're not going about it the right way.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2011, 07:01:46 PM by Andy Stamm »

Michael Wharton-Palmer

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2011, 03:38:23 PM »
A useless bit of tribia...the Trophy was donated by one Mr Wadley from here in Texarkana.......He was on e f the original board members.

Terry Lavin

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2011, 03:40:45 PM »
As others may have mentioned, it isn't the Western Open, it's the BMW championship.

Don't believe everything you read on this subject.  The Shackelford post is based on a Chicago Tribune online blurb that didn't indicate that the event was moving to Denver starting in 2014, merely that the 2014 event is going to be hosted at Cherry Hills.  There's a big difference between those two statements.  I highly doubt that this event will permanently move out of Chicago.  Rotation might be a good thing for all concerned.  I'd just hang tight and see what develops on this story.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Andy Stamm

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2011, 03:47:08 PM »
Don't believe everything you read on this subject.  The Shackelford post is based on a Chicago Tribune online blurb that didn't indicate that the event was moving to Denver starting in 2014, merely that the 2014 event is going to be hosted at Cherry Hills.  There's a big difference between those two statements.  I highly doubt that this event will permanently move out of Chicago.  Rotation might be a good thing for all concerned.  I'd just hang tight and see what develops on this story.

+1

The WGA is based in Chicago and Chicago will always have a big presence in the event. And the WGA favors clubs/areas with a strong WGA tie/support network. There are a lot of those clubs in Chicago and the midwest, but there aren't that many out 'west' as in California, etc.

Tony_Chapman

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2011, 03:49:19 PM »
Still can't believe that Cherry Hills is the place. It seems so, 1985, or Women's Open to me. I've got a feeling the boys will do mean things to that golf course three years from now. They'll be hitting 3-woods, 375 yards by then.

PCCraig

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2011, 03:55:28 PM »
Don't believe everything you read on this subject.  The Shackelford post is based on a Chicago Tribune online blurb that didn't indicate that the event was moving to Denver starting in 2014, merely that the 2014 event is going to be hosted at Cherry Hills.  There's a big difference between those two statements.  I highly doubt that this event will permanently move out of Chicago.  Rotation might be a good thing for all concerned.  I'd just hang tight and see what develops on this story.

+1

The WGA is based in Chicago and Chicago will always have a big presence in the event. And the WGA favors clubs/areas with a strong WGA tie/support network. There are a lot of those clubs in Chicago and the midwest, but there aren't that many out 'west' as in California, etc.

The Caddy I had a few weeks ago at Chambers Bay told me they have an active Evans program.
H.P.S.

Terry Lavin

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2011, 03:58:37 PM »
The WGA/ESF is active in several midwestern states, Colorado and the Pacific Northwest.  There are caddies from all of those areas going to college in all of those areas.  Most, of course, are from Illinois, where the WGA/ESF started and is headquartered, but there's a strong presence in Colorado, Oregon and Washington.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Andy Stamm

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2011, 04:04:21 PM »
Pat,

That's great to hear. I wonder how that works? It's great for the caddies, obviously. Typically a lot of the clubs with strong Evans programs will have numerous members who support the WGA (often identifiable by a hat or shirt). But at a resort, it must be a different model.

That's obviously a newer resort type of course where the "bread and butter" for the WGA is old line country clubs with caddy programs. There aren't too many of those in the major metro areas of the California, as I understand it.

PCCraig

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2011, 04:06:57 PM »
The WGA/ESF is active in several midwestern states, Colorado and the Pacific Northwest.  There are caddies from all of those areas going to college in all of those areas.  Most, of course, are from Illinois, where the WGA/ESF started and is headquartered, but there's a strong presence in Colorado, Oregon and Washington.

Right. Someone above mentioned moving the tournament was "all about the $." Yes and no. The WGA is all about the Evans, and if moving the tournament generates more revenue for the fund and more caddies can go to college then I doubt anyone on their board would care where the event is played.

The Western / BMW is a great old tournament that deserves to be played on great golf courses. I have no problem with them moving the tournament out of Chicago every other year to deserving clubs. In 2008 when the BMW was held at Bellerive golf fans in STL went nuts for the tournament despite a huge amount of rain that week and a lack of Tiger Woods. Not to mention BCC's membership, a longtime Evans supporting club, was very happy to host on a one-off basis.  
H.P.S.

JR Potts

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2011, 04:12:06 PM »
There is a 0.1% chance Medinah would host the BMW Championship.

It is sad to see it go even if it is temporarily.   I think it is a shortsighted decision to take PGA Tour golf out of Chicago.

Just plain dumb..

Mark Smolens

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2011, 04:16:15 PM »
"Cog Hill hasn't done a good job of courting/keeping happy the WGA or the USGA. They seem to want big events, but they're not going about it the right way."

What exactly did the Jemseks do that you feel wasn't the "right" way? Let's see, over Frank's objections, they closed his biggest moneymaking course for a year to do renovations, hired Rees Jones (the reputed "Open Doctor" who was the USGA's boy, at least for a while), spent over $5 million dollars of his own money paying for the changes, and now, hired a new superintendent who came with the PGA Tour's blessing. It sure is easy to tell other people how to run their business, but it seems to me that the goal of the Jemsek family, from Joe on down, to provide for the public golfer has clearly and unequivocally been done the "right" way.

And as for the WGA, as a Director Mr. Lavin can speak to this with more authority than I can, but my recollection is that the folks at Butler National took $500k off the top for hosting the Western Open, while Joe Jemsek and then his family don't get a penny for their hosting duties. That's a lot of scholarship cash for some deserving kids that goes directly into the WGA's coffers. Plus, the Jemseks bought up acres upon acres of surrounding fields so that Western Open patrons had a place close by to park. Moving the event periodically has been part of the WGA's plan for several years now. You go to an unfamiliar place and the locals knock themselves out buying tents and tickets -- they made a ton of cash at Bellerive. That's the focus of the WGA, but if you think that the folks in Golf, Illinois don't very much appreciate the Jemseks and Cog Hill as a venue for their event, you are sadly mistaken.

Was the course in lously condition for the BMW last year? No question. But the new guy worked at Muirfield Village, so let's just see how bringing some new blood into the Super's position affects the course.

Andy Stamm

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2011, 04:19:12 PM »
Right. Someone above mentioned moving the tournament was "all about the $." Yes and no. The WGA is all about the Evans, and if moving the tournament generates more revenue for the fund and more caddies can go to college then I doubt anyone on their board would care where the event is played.

The BMW FedEx Cup change was great in that regard. There were downsides, such as that they can no longer offer the Western Am Champion a spot in the Western Open. They also had to completely give up the name of the tournament. But, they got a lot more money, which as you state is very important for the Evans program.

Terry Lavin

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2011, 04:22:58 PM »
Mark is right, the WGA thinks the world of the Jemseks.  They've been nothing but responsive to whatever the WGA needs to accommodate the hosting of a PGA tournament.  The changes to the course were done, however, in response to the perceived need to beef it up for potentially hosting a US Open.  The money invested ($5 million) was invested in vain, because the USGA is more fond of the blank canvas (Erin Hills) in Wisconsin than Cog Hill.  C'est la vie.  But as for Cog Hill, you'll never hear anybody at the WGA diss the Jemseks.  They've been awesome.

As for the rest of this story, I'm not in possession of any inside information at all.  My activities in this organization have always been all about raising money for caddies.  I haven't had anything to do with the tournament end of things.  I'm just very doubtful that the BMW would move to Denver permanently.  Doesn't make sense to me.  A rotation?  Sure, I can see that, especially where the event did so well in St. Louis.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Andy Stamm

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2011, 04:29:14 PM »
Mark,

I didn't mean to offend you or anyone at Cog Hill. That's just what I've heard/read/observed about the situation. It seems to be backed up by the fact the Western Open is now no longer a fixture at the course. And, the USGA, after bringing the Am, which is often seen as a try out for the Open, has not been forthcoming in granting them an Open. I heard that the USGA wasn't that happy with the event, as a whole. And I don't just mean the course, itself. I've also heard that the USGA isn't excited about operating the Open within Cook County, which is obviously not the fault of anyone at Cog Hill.

Seeing Terry's latest post, this my apply more to the USGA side of things.

Mark Smolens

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2011, 04:47:08 PM »
Andy, I am admittedly a fan of the Jemseks, and their role in public golf in Chicago. Whether or not the decision to hire Rees Jones to do what he suggested was a good thing or a bad thing is not for me to say. There's no question in my mind that Frank Jemsek's wish was to  honor his father by hosting a National Open. Given the USGA's history with the Open Doctor, however, I just take issue with your characterization that they did something which was not the "right" way.

I also don't think that the USGA's issues with the greens at the US Am in the summer of 1991 played much role in any present-day decisions vis a vis Dubsdread's viability as an Open venue. The issues they had with the County during the Open at Olympia would seem to have been far greater a factor. I've never heard that there were any issues whatsoever with Cook County during the Am back in '91 -- which makes sense since there were more people in attendance on Monday at Olympia Fields than there were the entire week for the Amateur.

PCCraig

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2011, 05:13:20 PM »
Mark,

I'm assuming you mean the Am played in 1997 at Cog Hill? Won by Kuchar?
H.P.S.

Matthew Rose

Re: Western Open gone to Denver
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2011, 05:19:31 PM »
As a recent Denver resident who moved out here the year the International vanished (and was subsequently shattered by that development), consider me excited.

I do think it is unfortunate that they don't have an event in Chicago, though. There should be one. I was also sad to see the Milwaukee event dumped too.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

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