Western Open gone to Denver

[Matthew Petersen]

I grew up in Denver and attended several tournaments at Cherry Hills (in particular a Senior Open and Women's Open). It's been said for 20-some years (at least) that the place isn't fit for a men's event any longer, but we'll see. I played high school tournaments in snow, so maybe the pros can, too. (Bet they won't be bothered by looking for balls lost under thick leaf cover, though.)

[Bill_McBride]

Bill McBride -

The Western Open was held in Portland in 1955 and San Francisco (at the Presidio GC!) in 1956.

DT

Interesting....


Actually I think the Western Golf Association is to Chicago as the Northern California Golf Association is to San Francisco.

Or maybe not.

[Sam Morrow]

If everyone thinks Cherry Hills isn't enough course anymore how about going back to Castle Pines? I thought Castle Pines was one of the toughest courses I have ever played.

[Mark Saltzman]

I thought the reason the PGA Tour left CP is that CP didn't want to host an event anymore.  If that is the case, I presume they wouldn't want to hold this event either.  I may be wrong though.

Is the entire issue with CH length?  What if the course had long rough and firm/fast greens.  Could there be any defense?  I do not know the course at all, but I'm just curious.  This course has hosted several USGA events in the past.  Has technology really rendered it that defenseless?

[Tom_Doak]

We did a bunch of work at Cherry Hills 2 1/2 years ago.  Only a bit of it was done with the PGA Tour in mind -- the first I heard of the Western Open was this morning -- but the changes at #9 and #16 and #17 will be significant for the pros.

I was working for Perry Dye in 1985 and was there for the PGA Championship, when their young superintendent Armen Suny got it so firm and fast the PGA cried "uncle".  It played very short -- Hubert Green and Lee Trevino finished 1-2 -- but that is when the course is at its best.  It's possible they would get similar weather in July for the Western.

[Matt_Ward]

Sam:

Beg your pardon -- but the pros did a number on Castle Pines -- the thin air had them hitting it a very long ways and with superior turf quality on the greens were rolling in plenty of birdies.

Hard to get a higher elevation layout to play especially tough.

I agree w Tom D -- one will need to have CH be like concrete to have some effect with greens rolling like table tops.

Gents:

Have to believe that the braintrust at Ponte Vedra was not happy when the Tour stopped going to Denver -- great market and The International really added a different twist to the usual ho-hom 72-hole stroke play event.

Chicago has plenty of big time golf on the horizon with the Ryder Cup coming to Medinah next year. I think rotating all FedEx events would be the best option. It works with The Barclays -- although the event doesn't move as much as what the Westerm will be doing.

[Tim_Cronin]

The Western / BMW is now played in September. Expect an announcement Tuesday morning, likely out of Golf, Ponte Vedra and Denver.

[Matthew Rose]

I believe the International folded because the organizers were unhappy with the shift to the week before the PGA Championship. They had a lot of trouble attracting marquee players once that happened. After several requests for a schedule shift were not heeded, they got fed up and shut up shop.

At one time, Denver had events on all three major tours. Currently they have zero.

I hope the changes at Cherry Hills can make it somehow relevant again, because I'd like to see more events there in the future. My older brother may try to qualify for the US Am next year; regardless of how he fares on that quest, I will still be quite interested in how it goes there.

[Andy Troeger]

I always got the impression that Castle Pines was set up to encourage aggressive play and lots of birdies. From playing it I would also think they could toughen it up if that was the goal--its a difficult golf course for everybody else. Regardless of the course, what's wrong with the winner shooting pretty good scores anyway?

Another great possible venue in the area would be Colorado Golf Club. It seemed like the course was pretty popular among the seniors when they played it last year. The way the holes are laid out in terms of scoring reminds me a bit of Augusta from Tom Doak's recent thread. 10-12 is the tough stretch on the back, #13-16 allows for birdies, then #17 and 18 have a pretty good mix of scores, although #18 at CGC is probably closer to the "tough" category with more bogeys than birdies generally.

[Terry Lavin]

Assuming that it will indeed be a one-year stop in Denver, I have to say that I'm excited.  Cherry Hills is one of my absolute favorite golf courses in America.  If they can play a US Open at Merion, they surely can play a FedEx Cup Playoff at Cherry Hills.  The scores might approach 18 under par, but who cares?  They will be playing a terrific golf course with a lot of history.  And it recently was renovated by our very own Tom Doak.  That has to be good for the discussion of golf course architecture on the telecast.  Combine that with some footage from the days of yore, with Arnie's charge, with Nicklaus and Hogan in the hunt, throw in a bunch of great shots of the Rocky Mountains and you have one hell of a weekend in Denver.

ROAD TRIP!

[John Kavanaugh]

If I owned a business in Chicago I wouldn't want a regular PGA stop where customers expected to be treated.  There is no cost benefit ratio left in entertaining people at anything that comes by each year.

[Matt_Ward]

Terry, et al:

Rotating events may be the key item for a range of top tier pro events.

No doubt Chicago is not going to be abandoned but the rotation aspect gives facilities a needed "rest" so that they are not under the gun each year. It also serves to provide such "new" locations with a top tier field -- a common issue The International, as previously mentioned, faced.

Recapturing the Denver market works in a range of ways.

[Sam Morrow]

Sam:

Beg your pardon -- but the pros did a number on Castle Pines -- the thin air had them hitting it a very long ways and with superior turf quality on the greens were rolling in plenty of birdies.

Hard to get a higher elevation layout to play especially tough.

I agree w Tom D -- one will need to have CH be like concrete to have some effect with greens rolling like table tops.

Gents:

Have to believe that the braintrust at Ponte Vedra was not happy when the Tour stopped going to Denver -- great market and The International really added a different twist to the usual ho-hom 72-hole stroke play event.

Chicago has plenty of big time golf on the horizon with the Ryder Cup coming to Medinah next year. I think rotating all FedEx events would be the best option. It works with The Barclays -- although the event doesn't move as much as what the Westerm will be doing.

Matt didn't that have a lot to do with the fact that course was set-up for Stableford so they wanted to players to go crazy? Have you played Castle Pines? If they want they can set it up something fierce.

[Doug Wright]

We're excited out here in Denver to have this event. I think it's a one shot deal for now, maybe a rotation thing. As the attached PGA press release indicates, Cherry Hills is a big supporter of caddies and the WGA (as is Denver CC). Also, some of the guys at Cherry Hills seem to have this thing about majors etc. where they think it's essential to the club's prestige. Unlike our fine brethren at Cherry Hills, we at Denver CC are much more comfortable with what we have and have no need to obsess about such things...    

http://www.pgatour.com/2011/tournaments/r028/04/12/bmw-cherry-hills/

If the course/greens are firm, there will be some fun out there at Cherry Hiills. I'd expect the rough to be penal. Yes, it is a short course for these guys, but there are very few remaining "long" courses anyway.

Castle Pines GC (Jack Vickers) didn't like being jerked around by the Tour schedule-wise, so he said adios.  It was disappointing for us local golf aficionados but hey it's his club after all... Colorado GC unfortunately has fallen on hard times and, as witnessed by the US Amateur qualifying round move from CGC to CommonGround, likely won't get back into the tournament game unless/until it gets its financial act together.

Will be great to have the US Am here next year and this event in 2014.

[Rob Bice]

Bill McBride -

The Western Open was held in Portland in 1955 and San Francisco (at the Presidio GC!) in 1956.

DT

Interesting....


Actually I think the Western Golf Association is to Chicago as the Northern California Golf Association is to San Francisco.

Or maybe not.

The Chicago District Golf Association is to Chicago as the Northern California Golf Association is to San Francisco.

The Western Golf Association hosts three tournaments - Wetsern Am, Western Junior and the BMW and runs the Evans Scholarship Program for caddies.

[Matt_Ward]

Sam:

I have played Castle Pines a few times. Really liked the course and no doubt they could do whatever they wish to toughen the course.

The Stableford system was fun to watch -- broke up the tedium of the same 72-hole stroke events.

Grabbing the Denver market makes wonderful sense -- I see the big time events for FedEx following the rotation system. It serves to keep different communities in the mix without overburdening any one site to be an annual affair.

Curious to see how Cherry Hills holds up in 2011 world class golf terms.

[Terry Lavin]

Terry, et al:

Rotating events may be the key item for a range of top tier pro events.

No doubt Chicago is not going to be abandoned but the rotation aspect gives facilities a needed "rest" so that they are not under the gun each year. It also serves to provide such "new" locations with a top tier field -- a common issue The International, as previously mentioned, faced.

Recapturing the Denver market works in a range of ways.

I agree.  Personally, I'd like to see a rotation where Chicago hosts every other year and other cities rotate on the "off" year.  St. Louis, Indy, Cleveland, Denver, San Francisco, Portland and Seattle would all be interesting venues to utilize.

[Matthew Petersen]

I miss The International dearly. Growing up in the area, it was a highlight of every year. They had both schedule difficulties and sponsor difficulties, but probably could have found a sponsor more easily if they had a better schedule spot and thus a better field.

Castle Pines was a great course to go watch the pros play at and the Stableford format was a unique and very missed diversion on tour. The tour needs more stops with different formats like that. Sadly, without The International, they have very few.

[Matt_Ward]

The Tour is going to need to elevate other mid to large cities into the mix.They don't have the depth of resources to host something every year but moving things around keeps the big time venues in play. They will host every 3-4 years -- not every year in many cases.

[jkinney]

Assuming that it will indeed be a one-year stop in Denver, I have to say that I'm excited.  Cherry Hills is one of my absolute favorite golf courses in America.  If they can play a US Open at Merion, they surely can play a FedEx Cup Playoff at Cherry Hills.  The scores might approach 18 under par, but who cares?  They will be playing a terrific golf course with a lot of history.  And it recently was renovated by our very own Tom Doak.  That has to be good for the discussion of golf course architecture on the telecast.  Combine that with some footage from the days of yore, with Arnie's charge, with Nicklaus and Hogan in the hunt, throw in a bunch of great shots of the Rocky Mountains and you have one hell of a weekend in Denver.

ROAD TRIP![/b]

Agreed.

[Sam Morrow]

Sam:

I have played Castle Pines a few times. Really liked the course and no doubt they could do whatever they wish to toughen the course.

The Stableford system was fun to watch -- broke up the tedium of the same 72-hole stroke events.

Grabbing the Denver market makes wonderful sense -- I see the big time events for FedEx following the rotation system. It serves to keep different communities in the mix without overburdening any one site to be an annual affair.

Curious to see how Cherry Hills holds up in 2011 world class golf terms.

Agreed, they need another Stableford event somewhere.

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