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Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« on: February 03, 2002, 08:20:26 PM »
Guys,

Having never played in Australia I have always been amazed on television by the way the bunkers are maintained at the sand belt course.  It looks as if the only place the bunkers are raked are in the middle.  The thing I like the most about them is that the ball seems to always go the bottom of the bunker.  I'm sure it has something to do with bunker construction too...but I'm not sure.

Paul Daley's new book may have the answer to this, but I haven't seen it yet.  

Thanks in advance for your answer...watching the Heineken at Royal Melbourne only increases my interest in an eventual Australian trip.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2002, 08:31:52 PM »
Adam,
   I noticed the way that the bunkers are maintained while watching the Ryder Cup and also The Match Play Championships at The Met Club last year. It looks to me like the banks are brushed, maybe with a broom ???, while the middle and flat parts are hand-raked by just dragging the rake. All I have to say is that I'd feel guilty if I messed up on of the Good Doctor's bunkers..they looked great this week and boy, were they perfect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2002, 08:53:29 PM »
I'd like to ask Anthony, because he has worked with Jeff Bradley on bunkers, and any other archie that may see this to explain what they see from a design/build point of view in the bunkers style of Mackenzie at RM and some of the other similar styles we see in Australia relative to their "maintenance meld".  Anotherwords, how would they go about constructing those beautiful tongues and hollowed bays and graceful sweeping lips, yet build them in such a way to be maintainable year in and year out with the crisp razor sharp spaded edges that we see on TV from Oz?  Particularly, when one recognizes that the courses there are constructed in the sand belt (presumably on sand that would tend to crumble during construction).  Would one have to construct the lips of new bunkers with turf rolled over to be grown-in for several years maturity of rootdepth before one could attempt to make those spaded edging cuts, without having them crumble in due to the sandy soils?  In doing so, would one plant the new lips a foot or two rolled over the eventual intended line of the spaded cut and wait till the roots nit in so to speak, so that crumbling isn't an issue?  Or, would they add an additional foot or so layer of a tighter soil around where the lips will be outlined, and let roots grow into the tighter soil, then spade through that top soil profile to get a more durable spaded cut?

Where do we see this maintence meld look of bunkering in the US?  Would Thomas bunkers at Riviera qualify, or Bradley's at Talking Stick?  I have seen many razor sharp edges at many courses and clubs in the US, but not many that combine the graceful-artful lines of the bunker lips with the razor cuts that seems to make many of those in Oz "a cut above". 8)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David N. Goldie

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2002, 11:10:44 PM »
Adam, I have worked on golf courses in Australia, the US and Scotland and I find it amazing how a maintenance trend can pass thru a whole country.  I found in the states a leaf rake was the common tool, raking the base then standing outside or in the bunker leaf raking/fluffing up the faces. You may tell me different in some parts of the US, but I know it is common down south and for some PGA event prep.  The design of many bunkers in america being larger and shallower I imagine has encouraged this style of prep.  In Scotland I found the most crucial aspect was the bunkers evenness. I found myself spending up to 10 minutes in a deep pot bunker just making it as playable as possible. Since pot bunkers have steep (sometimes revetted) faces, the sand is of a rounder particle, the high winds in Scotland and only one exit point for golfers they lose there shape very quickly. In Australia we have a practise called back-raking where we use the smooth side of the rake/ a board/ or a broom to smooth the faces first. Then we rake the flat base only as this is where we want the ball to rest in the bunker.   During Aus Open prep at Metropolitan G.C the meticulous attention was amazing.  The sandbelt type sands remarkebly compact very well hence why they stay smooth on such a steep tall bunker face.  Mechanical wacker plates are used in bunker building to compact faces. The tournament morning prep would involve back-raking(if the sand is dry a broom is good), then boarding the base as smooth as possible, then lightly putting a teeth mark pattern on the base.
The organic matter/thatch/roots usually is enough to hold that sharp edge against the green.  A turfie from RMGC mentioned to me that the bunker sand was all washed off the faces during the freakish Friday night storms of the Heinekin. An incredible effort by that team involving front end loaders and replacing turf before play started Sat morn must be applauded.
For the matchplay at Metro many of the greens were mown right over bunker edges, with them cut at around 2mm and the impeccable condition of the bunkers I am sure the good doctor would have been pleased.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NicP

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2002, 11:11:10 PM »
Having worked on the ground staff at Kingston Heath Golf Club (regarded as 2nd. to RMGC in Aus) over a summer one year, most of which was spent in the bunkers, I may be able to give an insight into the upkeep of them. As has been pointed out the bunkers have hard sand faces which are not raked. Instead we used to "board" the faces. This was done with a rake like tool that had no forks - it was basically a bit of wood stuck on a handle. The sand would be smoothed from bottom to top until it became hard. The bottom of the bunkers were then raked. Any ball that was hit into the bunker would eventually finish at the base of the bunker.

Another fantastic aspect of Sand Belt bunkers is there relative "hardness". This promotes attacking shocks and also eliminates "plugged" lies.

Hope you guys enjoyed the pictures this week.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Daley

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2002, 03:24:55 AM »
Adam:

Hi there. Thanks David and Nic for super answers (no pun intended) and for the input of RJ and Anthony.

Nothing distinguishes the Sandbelt courses more so that its bunkering. Royal Melbourne and Kingston Heath lead the way in this regard. At both courses, plus Yarra Yarra, and a few others, it was common practice after a few years to join bunkers together for maintenance purposes, and effect, to a lesser degree.

It is worth reflecting that many bunkers over the sandbelt owe their great start in life to the 'Horse and Scoop' construction method in the 1920s and 30s.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard_Goodale

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2002, 03:55:10 AM »
This is great stuff, guys.  I do wonder, however, about the comment "eliminates plugged lies."  Is this true?  If so, is it desirable?  To me, one of the characteristics of a great bunker is that plugged (or at least slightly dicey) lies are possible.  Nor probable, but possible.  The element of cruel chance.  The possibility of punishment.  If all bunkers do is funnel balls to a flat and firm spot, they are not going to sufficiently challenge players of any calibre--particularly the pros, and are far from "ideal."  At least in my opinion.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2002, 07:25:20 AM »
Mr. Daley,
  My first impression about the bunkering done at RMGC, KH, and the Met club is that all the faces were constructed from the original ground coutours, hence, the sand, soil and peat had been in place and compacted for several thousand years. Like Mr. Goldie said, the sandbelt sands compact very well. I know that at Talking Stick, any soil that was moved to make bunkers, tees, greens, mounds, etc., had to be water because the soil would not compact without it. There were always water trucks on site. It would act as pure sand. If I were to construct bunkers in this manner today, I would go about placing a 3-5 inch ring of stacked sod around the general outline the intended bunker.(The soil profile would be directly under it.)  Therefore, there would be a stable edge that would not crumble and would always allow for grass to stay tight on the edge. With this sod in place, an edge would always be easy to cut because soil will not fall apart like sand. Plus, by the time the course were to open for play, the sand would be pulled up enough on the faces that the black soil would appear as if it were pure sand.
   Bunker comparisons in the US would definatly include Riveria, Talking Stick, Bel-Air. An a smaller level-Pasatiempo, SFGC and Valley of Montecito
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

NicP

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2002, 01:52:45 PM »
Rich,

        Having grown up playing on the sandbelt the idea of "plugged" lies is not one that comes naturally to me. Although the balls may funnel to large collection areas in the bunkers the combination of depth, slope and contour and the firmness of the greens makes many so called "easy" bunker shots around the sandbelt a nightmare. Bunker play in Melbourne is a real skill, the bases of the bunkers are very hard with not much sand, and requires a sound technique and alot of nerve. Although designed as a hazard should bunkers not provide the oppurtunity for the golfer to hit a heart pounding recovery ? I am sure the good Dr. highlighted this point in The Spirit Of St. Andrews in regard to challenging the golfer - maybe I've missed the boat on this one but give me hard based bunkers any day !
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Richard_Goodale

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2002, 02:06:36 PM »
NIcP

I'd prefer to play out of a hard-based bunker too, of course.  Why, because it is easier!  However, to me, golf is not just about technique and execution it is about chance and challenge.  The four of these add up to strategy.  Just try to imagine playing a bunker shot to one of those tricky pin positions At RM, but with a slightly cuppy lie in softish sand, where there might be 3 or 4 legitimate alternatives for the shot, only one of which would have as its objective getting it near the pin.  That sort of thing really separates the men from the boys, IMHO.  The pros would absolutely hate it, which is why I would love it!

I suspect that the lies that Dr. McKenzie experienced in bunkers in Scotland in his day would cause most touring pros today to walk off the course.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NicP

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2002, 02:20:09 PM »
Richard,

            Excellent point and one that has got me thinking. Maybe my opinions have been tarnished from my playing days rather than from an architectual or stratergy point of view. Maybe the bunkers are to uniform in Melbourne ? It may take some time to be fully converted but thanks for your thought provoking point of view.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2002, 02:23:25 PM »
Els did indeed hit a masterful bunker shot on the last day, (I forget which hole) where he was about 160-70 away from the green and had to hit a cut shaped shot from the bunker that appeared to have significant lip requiring a lofted iron, and shaped the shot to the green, and got it stopped on the putting surface!  

Another observation about the bunkers down under they have; crisp sharp edges on the inward side of the fairway edge bunkers, but have an artful manner of maintenance meld to transition to native plants on the outward sides leading deeper into native rough areas.  I just can't say enough for the way those bunkers impress me!  Thanks to the gents above for their explanations of the maintenance and construvtion from their experiences!  ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Richard_Goodale

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2002, 02:32:22 PM »
NicP

Thanks for letting me provoking your thoughts!  I've never played RM, but I know enough people whom I respect who have so to know that it is one of the golf world's true gems.  One of the other things that was mentioned above, about the greens flowing into the bunkers, is one of the reasons I will find a way to get there, some day.  Why modern day designers/supers find it necessary to put some sort of collar between greens and sand is absolutely beyond me.....
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NicP

Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2002, 02:40:59 PM »
Rich,

      The bunker complexes on the Sand Belt are truely works of art and I have no idea why they are not replicated by modern designers. Both the greenside and fairway bunkers mold into the surrounding green or rough like no others. I don't think TV gives you the scope of some of these complexes, they have to be seen and experienced to fully appreciate them. One can only imagine how intimidating they were in the 1920's and 30's ? A question. When did the practice of raking bunkers become common place ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Chris Kane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2002, 09:44:56 PM »
A thing I love about the bunkering of the sandbelt, but particularly RM, is the way the huge bunkers are primarily used to intimidate.  

Some are not really in play, but when faced with a shot into the green, you feel as though those huge traps are waiting to swallow both you and your ball!  The are positioned so you see as much of the sand facing as possible. By the time you get to the green, you realise they aren't as much to worry about as you thought.  

A superb example of Mackenzie messing with the mental rather than the physical game.  The mistake is made not with the hands, but with the head.  This kind of architecture is present on all great courses IMO.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bunker Maintenance at Royal Melbourne
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2002, 02:26:41 PM »
Guys,

Thank you very much for the great insight into my question........Hopefully someday.......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »