Masters Setup Makes No Sense...

[Richard Choi]

Can someone explain to me why Masters committee has setup ANGC like this? What are they trying to achieve?

Why would you have soft greens for a major where it just becomes a dart game for these pros?

Why especially when you have spent last 10 years planting trees, narrowing the landing zones, and growing rough in ill-advised quest to make par more difficult, then blow that all away with soft greens? Why not just take the course back to its original configuration and make the greens firmer?

They can't blame the weather as it has been just about perfect.

It is not that I don't like birdies, but there is very little strategy left on the course anymore. It is just like any other PGA Tour stop where you hit to the middle of the fairway and aim for the flag on every hole.

What is going on at Augusta?

[Wade Whitehead]

I was struck today by the total lack of ground game at ANGC.  Every shot is hit as high as possible.

Landing any ball short of its intended stopping point was entirely out of the question.

WW

[Matthew Rose]

So far, I've been shocked to see so many shots hold up on pond and creek banks. I've seen one or two at 12 and a bunch at 15. McIlroy's third shot at 15 would have been wet almost any other year.

[Will MacEwen]

I've noticed the creek banks holding, and also soft greens.  16 seemed unusually accessible for a back pin today - I saw a fair number of players hit it to 10 feet.

[Eric Smith]

They can't blame the weather as it has been just about perfect.

Richard,

I'm going to guess that the 5 inches of rain they received last week has something to do with the soft greens.

[Richard Choi]

Eric, I am looking at the weather record and they had a total of .47 inch of rain the previous week and 2.5 in of rain the week before that.

With the sub-air system and two weeks to prepare, I would think they could get these greens firmer than what we are seeing.

[Eric Smith]

Eric, I am looking at the weather record and they had a total of .47 inch of rain the previous week and 2.5 in of rain the week before that.

With the sub-air system and two weeks to prepare, I would think they could get these greens firmer than what we are seeing.

Yep, I went 12 days out from the first round (sorry, not just last week) and it adds up to 5 inches here http://www.weather.com/outlook/recreation/golf/monthly/1028887:5?month=-1 . According to that chart they received more than the monthly avg in those 12 days. Definitely been wet here in the south, but again I'm only guessing that it is the reason why the greens are soft.

[Matt_Ward]

Richard:

How bout the braintrust at ANGC go back to the way the course was before all the chahges that came from Hootie and his cohorts ?

Don't mind the added yardage in certain spots - but bag the second cut, the added trees, and the narrow landing zones. I have no problem with firmer greens but now ANGC has it backwards -- with softer greens it doesn't really matter that much with what they have done.

Truly perplexing.

[Jim Nugent]

I was struck today by the total lack of ground game at ANGC.  Every shot is hit as high as possible.

Landing any ball short of its intended stopping point was entirely out of the question.

WW

I thought that has been true, on the back nine at least, for the last 60 or so years.  I'm guessing it's also true for most holes on the front. 

[David Whitmer]

I don't quite understand what the problem is. I have read on this site for the last few years guys saying they want Augusta to "bring the excitement back," especially on the back nine. They wanted more birdies. Well, about the only way to do that is to make sure the greens are receptive. Ten-under is leading...I'm not sure that's too outrageous. Go watch highlights from 1986 and tell me if the greens were firmer than they are right now.

And the title of this thread says "Masters setup makes no sense." Well...sense to who? The guys down there who set up the course don't care one bit what David Whitmer or Richard Choi or anyone else out there thinks. They set up the golf course to provide a certain test for the professionals, and I'm guessing it's just the way they want it. They want birdies, they want excitement, they want guys like Tiger to be able to do what he did yesterday.

They don't care what the course was like 60 years ago, and they don't care about the fact that guys aren't running the ball up to the greens. They care about testing the best players in the world (and they are giving them a good test...just look at how the world's #1 played), they care about excitement, and they want people to tune in over the weekend. To me, from their perspective, it makes perfect sense.

[JC Jones]

Richard,

Have you been to Augusta National?

[archie_struthers]

 

I'm with Dave Whitmer, why not let them have some fun and make the tournament fun!   It was envisioned as a shoot-out by Bobby Jones , wasn't it?   Plus we all know the tournament doesn't really start stinging until Saturday , so let's just enjoy it.

Pretty soon it will be June and we'll be watching the best players in the world getting tortured at the US Open ,  which has it's own mantra and is a counterbalance to Augusta.    Enjoy it lads , cheer for the eagles and birdies . Remember the shoot out in '75 when Nicklaus held off Watson Miller and Wesikopf ...it was quite a weekend....

[Bill Gayne]

Historically, ten to twelve under par wins and I expect twelve under will most likely get a play-off if not a win. There are four players playing great golf and that needs to be recognized. We will know soon enough if any of the four can maintain the same pace.

I guess I'm in the minority here in that I'm really enjoying the tournament and view the low scoring by four players as as result of great shot making.

[Adam Clayman]

It makes sense if you realize they aren't in the "testing" business. They are in the television entertainment biz.

The head scratcher for me is how they have taken what use to be the most special looking place and turned it into just another golf course. The 2nd cut is mostly responsible but the trees help a lot.

I recall they use to set up the first two days difficult, allowing the best to rise to the top. Then ease up a bit allowing for the excitement and drama on the weekend.

Tiger's pressor on Thursday said it all. He repeated "lush" 3 times 

[JC Jones]

The head scratcher for me is how they have taken what use to be the most special looking place and turned it into just another golf course. The 2nd cut is mostly responsible but the trees help a lot.
 

Have you seen the 2nd cut in person?  It is about the same length as a fairway at most golf courses.

Also, that is one of the widest golf courses I have seen. 

[John Kavanaugh]

That critic hat must be getting tight.  This thread was started after Tiger just shot 31 on the back nine to charge the batteries of golfers all over the world. This is exactly what golf needs coming out of winter.  The poweres that be at ANGC put their egos aside for the good of the game.  Why can't we?

[Adam Clayman]

JC, No. Drove by once, but I would never want to put up with the masses. It's still my opinion that the one cut was special for visual and playable reasons. The visual of the one cut was clean, and back then unique. The 2nd cut gives an almost ratty look to the grounds. Having watched drive after drive plop plop fizz fizz with less than 10 yards of roll, the alleged John Kirk rule was dead and buried in Augusta the last two days.

JB.  I guess I should just have stayed blissfully ignorant about the finer points of this game. Bowing and genuflecting for the glimpses they allows us poor pions every April. Or, is this your new kinder and gentler method of getting an invite?

edit; Looks like Geoff agrees with your watered down version as being perfect for the new Augusta

[Ron Csigo]

Before we make any comments on the Masters setup, we should be prudent and wait for the tournament's end.  I can't remember the last time a 36-hole leader actually won the tournament.  I agree with Bill Gayne, 12 to 16 under par will probably win the tournament.  Over the next couple of days, the course will play much faster and much harder.  We'll start seeing more balls being putted off the greens and approach shots catapulting through the greens.

After all, it was only a few years ago that we were complaining that they converted the Masters to a US Open when Zach Johnson and Trevor Immelman won the tournament.  IMO, we want/like to see birdies.  There's nothing better than hearing the Augusta roars echo throughout the property.  That is the Masters!

[John Kavanaugh]

Adam,

It's just that for years I have heard the wanting of back nine roars.  Now that we get them the guys on this board want more balls in the water.  This is In Georgia for God's sake.  There is room left for brown in the world.

[Richard Choi]

And the title of this thread says "Masters setup makes no sense." Well...sense to who? The guys down there who set up the course don't care one bit what David Whitmer or Richard Choi or anyone else out there thinks. They set up the golf course to provide a certain test for the professionals, and I'm guessing it's just the way they want it. They want birdies, they want excitement, they want guys like Tiger to be able to do what he did yesterday.

They don't care what the course was like 60 years ago, and they don't care about the fact that guys aren't running the ball up to the greens. They care about testing the best players in the world (and they are giving them a good test...just look at how the world's #1 played), they care about excitement, and they want people to tune in over the weekend. To me, from their perspective, it makes perfect sense.

David, I personally don't care what the winning score is. I am just confused by the schizoid actions the setup committee seems to be performing. I thought the whole point of planting the trees and narrowing the fairways with the rough was to make the course harder.

But now they (and you) are basically saying we made the course too hard, so we have to soften the greens!!!???

Why not just chop the trees down and take the course back to how it used to play???

Bring back the excitement by giving back angles and strategy, which is what this course used to be about. Which is what also made this course and tournament so unique. Don't just turn it in to just another tour stop, which is what this setup is doing.

[Tom_Doak]

It is just going to be a lot harder to sell the merits of firm and fast conditions, when some of its leading proponents express their fondness for "slightly soft and green" so that their favorite players can make more birdies and make for a more exciting tournament.  How many members of golf clubs are going to be pushing for that next week?

I am not in favor of making the course impossibly difficult to protect par -- not at all.  I agree that birdies and eagles make for excitement.  But there are two ways to get there, and this is not the better of the two.

[Richard Choi]

Richard,

Have you been to Augusta National?

No, but I have played it on my Xbox

Why do you ask?

[Rick Shefchik]

If one were to take a step back and truly try to figure out what ANGC has been up to, it appears they want more shots like the one they've been showing ever ten minutes this year: Phil's blast from between two pine trees last year that hit the green and stopped five feet from the pin on 13.

My guess is they're sacrificing the thinking man's game for the spectacular shot.

[Adam Clayman]

John K. Green and firm are not mutually exclusive. Kuchars ball on 12 was not a step forward. Tom has worded the tight headed criticisms very well. 

[Phil McDade]

The greatness of Augusta National as a tournament course, played at the Masters, is its ying and yang -- that birdies and eagles are as likely outcomes (often on the same hole) as bogeys and "others." We've seen a bit of that -- McDowell going 5-3 on 12 (double bogey) and 13 (eagle) yesterday. Augusta's width and green contours have always struck me as enabling aggressive play, well executed, that can produce low scores, while at the same time (combined with the threat of water on much of the back nine) threatening the ill-considered, loose, or too-bold play with bad scores.

I do agree the conditions seem a bit soft this year, thus seeming to negate the potential for the yang while yielding lots of ying.

(And remember that some of the fondest memories of Augusta, and some of its most exciting finishes of modern times -- Nicklaus' '86 back-nine charge, Lyle out of the bunker on 18, Mize's chip-in, the O'Meara/Duvall/Couple back-nine battle in '98 -- all were tournaments in which the winning score was higher than -10.)