[Rich Goodale]

I think its all the result of a really bad acid trip.

Who put that bunker in the sky? Why? Why would someone put that bunker in my eye? Can you tell me why? Mr. Sky?

(This coming from a person that has never done the stuff.)

Without trying to read all of this stuff we used to post about here quite frequently, wasn't it because of the proported way Paddy Cole built bunkers for MacKenzie at Cypress Point? That he had copied the cluds that were in the sky?

So THAT's why there ar so many bunkers at CPC.  Paddy would build a bunker, go have a nice lunch, and then come back and find that the cloud had moved, or there was a new one he had missed before....

[Tommy_Naccarato]

It's either that or Paddy would have return from a liquid lunch thinking the clouds had moved drastically....

[Tom_Doak]

Bill B:  I don't know for sure who was the first person to use the phrase "bunkers in the sky" but I do know it predates this thread by many years.  George Thomas might even have used the phrase in his book, as he was the Golden Age architect who was the biggest proponent of incorporating trees as hazards.

The perplexing thing about these "tree conversations" on Golf Club Atlas is that they all talk about trees as an element which shouldn't be added to a course.  In the real world, many sites have beautiful trees to work with, and only a nutball would cut them all down.  [On some sites, in fact, you're not allowed to cut them down.]  So the REAL question is how to use those trees in the design ... how close you should go to them.

[TEPaul]

BillB:

You are really something. Thanks to you many of these old threads from years ago are being brought back to the first page.

You're a wonder!  

It all just goes to show those who are more recent on this site that so much of what we discuss in any given day has been roundly discussed before in the old days of this site.

Nevertheless, I never tire of it although some of the original contributors who are gone now say they tired of discussing the same subjects again and again.

By the way, whomever first coigned the term "bunkers in the sky" I sure know it wasn't me, as much as I love coigning terms. I believe it may've come from some of the old "Nae links, nae golf" Scottish linksmen.

[Dan Boerger]

Tom - Hear, hear! I've often thought that total tree removal frequently falls into the "baby with the bathwater" category. In addition to the examples you've mentioned other holes that, IMO, benefit from the strategically placed tree(s) are: Merion #4, trees along the right side really defines your tee shot, Merion #15, this hole is much better, IMO, with the right side trees, Aronimink #7, you want to play more right than center, but good luck on your approach if you do, Aronimink #18, even if your line of play isn't dictated on your approach shot, the right side tree is certainly a visual you need to contend with.

Nearly every year I get the opportunity to play golf in or around London. I can't help but think that the original "Heathland" designers were the first to really wrestle with the tree issue.

Lastly, and this is directed at that amazing course called Oakmont ... forget strategy, plant some more blasted trees so next time I view a tournament at your course I can at least find some decent shade!

[Dan Kelly]

By the way, whomever first coigned the term "bunkers in the sky" I sure know it wasn't me, as much as I love coigning terms.

Tom I --

We'll be sure to credit you as the whoever who coigned "coign."

Dan

[Adam Clayman]

Re; wholesale tree plantings and how different they are from intelligent/strategic use.

The preferred justification for the use of trees is either as an encouragement or, fear. i.e. #14 at Rustic Canyon.

The improper justification, stops someone from executing or penalizes a golfer for a heroic effort.

This goes to the heart of what bothers me so much about stereotypical Chicago golf.

I like what GCT said on the subject.

[Phil Benedict]

I think what distinguishes trees from other obstacles on a golf course is that a golfer often needs to hit a shot 'around' trees to get where he wants to be.  This may not create strategic value but it does create shot values in that the player has to be able to curve the ball to get to the target.  Bunkers and ponds may be positioned to favor a particular shot shape, but in most cases a high, straight shot over a bunker will work.  

I hit a shot too close to the tree line the other day, in play but without a direct line to the flag.  The only way to get to the target was to hit a draw.  Cut down those trees and a straight shot would have been fine.

[Bill Brightly]

BillB:

"You are really something. Thanks to you many of these old threads from years ago are being brought back to the first page.

You're a wonder!  

I never tire ...of the originals... "


TEPaul,

I think of it this way: the old threads are great templates. Why re-invent the wheel when we have all these great old threads to copy? Of course people love them when we re-create them today!

Let's call them MacThreads!

[TEPaul]

"Tom I --
We'll be sure to credit you as the whoever who coigned "coign."
Dan"

THE "EDITOR" strikes again.

Danny Boy,

You know me, I started out on here with very little respect or concern for grammar, syntax, punctuation or anything else I had to endure in the classes of Mrs Grundy and it's gone downhill ever since.

To me writing on here is nothing more than the art of communication, drama and some mild shock effect. If the readers on here don't get it then the only recourse is to hit them with both of the humor hammers.

[Dan Kelly]

You know me, I started out on here with very little respect or concern for grammar, syntax, punctuation or anything else I had to endure in the classes of Mrs Grundy and it's gone downhill ever since.

Hey, Jughead --

I couldn't find any drawings of Mrs. Grundy -- but of course you remember her daughter, Miss Grundy.



The most important question remains: How would you rank Veronica and Betty?

I honestly can't remember, for my own account. Gettin' old, gettin' old...

Dan

[TEPaul]

"The most important question remains: How would you rank Veronica and Betty?"

Danyo:

It's getting a little hazy now pal, but it just could be that Veronica was the very first gal I was hot for. Wasn't she the one with the Jane Russell eyes and hair?

I'm glad you mentioned those two because that was in the real distant past and I'd forgotten about Veronica for about 57 years now.

If anybody ever asked me who the first girl I was ever turned on by I've always answered D.B. Parrish. That happened when I was something like 8 or 9 years old.

Have you ever heard of the top of the heap in fame of American interior decorators, Sister Parrish?

Well, anyway, it was her daughter D.B. Parrish. I was about nine and D.B. was probably about eighteen.

I was completely smitten by her. She was sort of tomboyish but really sexy and she had blond hair and very dark eyebrows.  

I thought that was the coolest thing I'd ever seen, and of course I was right because I was about eight years old and I basically thought I already knew it all.  

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