News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Lefties and ANGC
« on: April 06, 2011, 05:40:36 PM »
Lee Trevino said you could talk to fade but not to a hook. Six majors have been won by mollydookers - Bob Charles at Royal Lytham & St. Annes (1963) in The Open, Mickelson in the 2005 PGA at Baltusrol. Mike Weir has one Masters, and Phil has three Masters. If one assumes that the most consistent ball flight for a top player is a fade, is ANGC one of the few courses which favors a portsider
because the majority of holes favor a right to left ball flight? Are there onlt three holes which encourage left to right - 3, 11 and 18?


Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2011, 05:45:36 PM »
Pete,
Remember, a slice is also deaf.  ;)

Drawing the ball and fading it are two faces of the same coin.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2011, 05:51:37 PM »

Drawing the ball and fading it are two faces of the same coin.


How's that Jim?

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2011, 06:07:57 PM »
Jim,
I guess it depends on your definition. The one I labor under(lefty) says that a draw is a straight shot that falls to the right, a fade is a straight shot that falls to the left. Either of those shots can be 'talked' to in Trevino-ese.

The higher flighted shot is relatively important at Augusta, and a high fade or a high draw are going to react similarly (minus the direction of any roll-out) when they touch down.  

I don't think anyone would say Jack's ball flight was any less-suited to Augusta than Phil's is.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:10:39 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Will MacEwen

Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 06:13:20 PM »
I believe Weir draw the ball.

I think Phil has said that #12 favours lefties, 16 favours righties because of miss patterns.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 09:35:43 PM »
Jim,
I guess it depends on your definition. The one I labor under(lefty) says that a draw is a straight shot that falls to the right, a fade is a straight shot that falls to the left. Either of those shots can be 'talked' to in Trevino-ese.

The higher flighted shot is relatively important at Augusta, and a high fade or a high draw are going to react similarly (minus the direction of any roll-out) when they touch down.  

I don't think anyone would say Jack's ball flight was any less-suited to Augusta than Phil's is.

With the old equipment, a left handed fader would've had a hard time acheiving the needed distance to conquer Augusta as a draw is a more powerful shot with a high spinning ball and clubhead.
Nowadays a fade can be hit much more powerfully with far less spin, thus the power fade is a common shot amongst bombers, where before it was a rarity possessed by only the strongest and best ballstrikers.
Today's hot equipment is much harder to draw and is the reason many players will use  3 wood to hook it, but a fade with a driver is slightly easier and still plenty hot to go a long way.
jack spent the weeks before Augusta prepping his ball flight for the needed draws at Augusta.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ian Andrew

Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2011, 10:41:43 PM »
I believe Weir draw the ball.

Turns the ball comfortably both directions. When I followed him in 1989 for the opening 68 he moved the ball according to the shape of the hole. Big cut on 13 got him onto the flat by the creek for a memorable eagle.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2011, 10:48:10 PM »
Off the top of my head I can't think of a lefty, save Bob Charles, from the 'old' equipment days.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2011, 12:06:55 AM »
I believe Weir draw the ball.

I think Phil has said that #12 favours lefties, 16 favours righties because of miss patterns.


Mickelson has said the shot at 16 (esp. to the traditional final-round pin placement) is difficult for him -- if he comes out of the shot, he dumps it into the pond, and if he overcooks a draw it ends up on the upper tier w/ no chance of a two-putt (to the Sunday pin).

Will MacEwen

Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2011, 12:10:20 AM »
I believe Weir draw the ball.

I think Phil has said that #12 favours lefties, 16 favours righties because of miss patterns.


Mickelson has said the shot at 16 (esp. to the traditional final-round pin placement) is difficult for him -- if he comes out of the shot, he dumps it into the pond, and if he overcooks a draw it ends up on the upper tier w/ no chance of a two-putt (to the Sunday pin).

And I think that #12 does the opposite - a lefty can get away with more there.

As a lefthander I should start paying more attention to holes that favour that miss pattern.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC New
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2011, 01:07:43 AM »
I disagree on #12. The diagonal of the 12th green favors a left to right ball flight. The 16th also favor left to right play, with hole locations on the sides and a dividing slope with a leftward bias.

Edit: Guily of a misread of the earlier post, I wrote agree, but meant disagree. I dis-sed edit.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 01:26:44 PM by Pete_Pittock »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2011, 03:42:51 AM »
There was an article on this very subject in Wednesday's NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/sports/golf/06ongolf.html?ref=golf

Jim Nugent

Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2011, 04:28:11 AM »
The 16th also favor left to right play, with hole locations on the sides and a dividing slope with a leftward bias.

That surprises me, because for any pin on the left side, including Sunday, doesn't left to right have to start out over the water?   

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2011, 05:44:23 AM »
I agree the diagonal of the 12th green favors a left to right ball flight. The 16th also favor left to right play, with hole locations on the sides and a dividing slope with a leftward bias.
Peter,

I don't think it's just the ball shape, re 12 and the miss pattern.  A pulled or hooked ball tends to fly a bit further, a push or slice a bit shorter, so a left to right angled green like 12 suits the miss pattern of a lefty.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Brent Hutto

Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2011, 10:04:23 AM »
Mark P. has it right. As a lefty player, no matter what my preferred shot shape, under pressure I'd rather play an ANGC #12 tee shot than the ANGC #16 tee shot every time. You have to feel that being lefty is to your advantage on #12 and disadvantage on #16, relative to the right-handed majority.

We have a much enlarged and simplified yet vaguely Augusta National twelfth-hole-like Par 3 at my club. Even with my weak, shaky swing I rarely dump one in the water and almost never end up in the front-right or back-left bunkers (both of which get frequently visited by right-handers I play with). My poor shots end up in the grass short and left of the green or occasionally I'll yank one long and right to the next teebox. If our hole was similar #16 at Augusta I'd be wet or in the grandstands quite frequently. We don't have a hole like that!

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lefties and ANGC
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2011, 01:22:51 PM »
The 16th also favor left to right play, with hole locations on the sides and a dividing slope with a leftward bias.

That surprises me, because for any pin on the left side, including Sunday, doesn't left to right have to start out over the water?   

Watching the balls roll on the green a RtL ball flight will pretty much roll out to the edge of the green, a LtR will end up closer to the hole location.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back