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erichunter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2011, 06:21:59 PM »
Build Mackenzie's 18 hole short course.

Matthew Sander

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2011, 06:31:59 PM »
I like the concise nature of Bogey's suggestions. They would do the most to address how the course plays.

From an aesthetic standpoint, returning the bunkers to Mackenzie's style would seem to be a good idea. However, don't most viewers see the large rounded bunkers as Augusta trademarks (not that this should dictate what is done...)?

Don't mess with 13 (except for clearing the new trees) or 14. I know the old bunker would look really cool, but the bunkerless and quirky nature of 14 makes it one of my favorite Augusta holes. The awkward drive and that green are all it needs...

Ross Tuddenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2011, 08:01:37 PM »
jeffwarne

No, I think the waiting list was filled before I was even born.  Living in Scotland hardly makes it local at any rate.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2011, 08:10:12 PM »
jeffwarne

No, I think the waiting list was filled before I was even born.  Living in Scotland hardly makes it local at any rate.

Gotta go.
gotta see it to believe it.
None of it makes sense until you see it-you'd even like the flowers.

Here's a news flash(at least it was to me) and it's not April Fools.
Daily tickets for the 2012 Masters are available via lottery. (as well as practice rounds)
They've NEVER sold daily tickets.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2011, 08:18:11 PM »
I've been to the Masters Thurs-Sun in 2007 and I still stand by my ideas.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2011, 08:27:28 PM »
I've been to the Masters Thurs-Sun in 2007 and I still stand by my ideas.

Mark

I like your ideas.
Ross was suggesting losing the plants that have been there since its' time as a nursery and provide part of the unique character of the property
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2011, 12:32:13 AM »
jeffwarne

No, I think the waiting list was filled before I was even born.  Living in Scotland hardly makes it local at any rate.

Gotta go.
gotta see it to believe it.
None of it makes sense until you see it-you'd even like the flowers.

Here's a news flash(at least it was to me) and it's not April Fools.
Daily tickets for the 2012 Masters are available via lottery. (as well as practice rounds)
They've NEVER sold daily tickets.

Not since about 1966, anyway. This is splendid news, even if you have to stay in Atlanta the night before. (Not a bad drive, actually; just get up at dawn and zoom down I-20.)
The website: www.illinoisgolfer.net
On Twitter: @illinoisgolfer

Jim Nugent

Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2011, 01:15:46 AM »
Related question to Mike's:  which architect(s) should direct the work? 

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2011, 09:10:39 AM »
Related question to Mike's:  which architect(s) should direct the work? 

You don't need an architect to:
Discontinue mowing the back tee at 7. (requires zero time)
Making additional fairway cuts. (requires 1 hour)
Cutting down trees and grinding stumps on 11 and 15.  (Requires two days)

Mike


Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2011, 06:12:25 PM »
I hadn't really examined the design of the original course that closely until I read Wexler's recent very well done article.  One of the things I found interesting in the article was the MacKenzie painting.  I didn't realize that creek snaked all the way through to today's 2nd hole.  I would rather see the original creek rather than that bland pond in front of 15.  It reminds me of that bath tub they have in front of the 18th at Torrey. The 13th certainly would not be anywhere near as charming as it is if it had one of those very boring ponds, would it?
The creek wouldn't come into play on the 2nd for the pros too much but it certainly would for the members.  I'm not sure how well a restored creek would turn out.  It is a moot point anyway because they aren't going to restore the course to the MacKenzie version.  They will fiddle with it a bit from time to time but not with the comprehensive brilliance that just unfolded on #2.
Note the 16th tee and the very interesting 6th green in the painting.  As you know, the 9's are reversed since the original painting.


Jim Nugent

Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2011, 05:05:35 AM »
You guys who would replace the pond on #15:  what is the reason for that?  From what I read, the creek did not come into play much, and certainly did not guard the green.  Seems to me the pond is what creates the intense drama and decision-making on the hole.


Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2011, 06:11:36 AM »
Hi Jim, yes I would much prefer that area as it naturally was.  For me the pond could not be more artless.  The creek would look much, much better.  The playability would be pretty similar as well.  When 99% of the pros hit it in the water they do so right beside the green - not on the back part of the pond.  It was a U shaped creek (which must have particularly intrigued MacKenzie) so if someone elected to try to lay up really close - and they would be tempted into such foolishness - it would catch many shots that were pulled or pushed.  The pros would still have to make the risk/reward shot - just over the creek rather than the pond.  And I would shave it down a bit so that overly aggressive lay up shots would roll dramatically into that creek.  Picture a shot in the heat of competition on Sunday sloooowly rolling its way down to a watery grave!
The original 16th played similarly.  It is amazing to see that tee to the right of the 15th green.  The older I get the less I like big boring ponds.  An artfully crafted hole which employees water (like the 13th) is fine from time to time - but those ponds or lakes like Houston last week or one of my least favorite courses - TPC Sawgrass - I do not like.  That is forced, ham handed, simple minded strategy and not what I would call fun.
The 13th is great - even with post-MacKenzie modifications.  Would anybody prefer that hole to have a fake pond in front of it?  It might play well with a pond in front of it but it would look almost as boring as the 15th.  Playability is key - but aesthetics and natural atmospherics are very important to my golfing experience.  
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 06:29:43 AM by Chris Buie »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Augusta restoration project....
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2011, 09:52:03 AM »
You guys who would replace the pond on #15:  what is the reason for that?  From what I read, the creek did not come into play much, and certainly did not guard the green.  Seems to me the pond is what creates the intense drama and decision-making on the hole.



Jim,

I think it would be every bit as effective as the creek is on 13 where many a ball gets swallowed up during Masters week.  Keep the bank shaved in front of 15 green and it'll go in.