Should international travellers abstain from paying International Rates?

[Mark Chaplin]

I have just returned from a wonderful trip to Australia and New Zealand where I had the good fortune to play some wonderful courses in the company of a few GCA'ers along the way. I will not name them as some are members of the elite clubs and prefer to keep a lower profile.

In no way linked to my GCA friends but something that concerns me is the practise of charging "International Rates", I can understand that once upon a time the Australasian countries had weak currencies and the overseas player spending thousands to get there could afford a little extra for their golf. Now the tables have turned and the A$ is at parity with the US$ at 63p to the £ and the NZ$ is also relatively strong.

At Cape Kidnappers a Kiwi pays NZ$200 and an international NZ$360

At Wairakei a Kiwi NZ$125 and Aussie NZ$150 and an international NZ$200

A top NSW club charges an Aussie A$250 yet an international pays A$400

While a top Vic club is A$100 more for internationals than interstate visitors

The only place I know of in the UK with a similar pricing strategy is Castle Stuart who promote local and wider Scottish golfers with discounted rates. Council run courses such as St Andrews and Carnoustie are a different entity.

When I raised the issue with one person they said the local market is fragile and international visitors can afford to pay more, yet if we both flew interstate, hired two cars, slept in two hotel rooms and dined in the same restaurants we'd all pay the same, local or foreigner. The cost of the round is no different to the club so is it right to charge more for overseas visitors or is it actually reducing tourist income in a global market?

[Michael Whitaker]

No it isn't right to do this. It is just another way to gouge. A visitor fee should be a visitor fee... what difference does it make where they live?

As you know, Mark, I experienced a few of these same "overseas" fees. I found them offensive.

[John Kavanaugh]

Locals subsidize the courses through hidden taxes and other fees.  I think it is a great policy.

[Scott Warren]

What hidden taxes and other fees are you referring to, John?

[John Kavanaugh]

The costs associated with providing the infrastructure that support the course.  Police, fire, roads, water, sewer, etc., etc.

[Mark_F]

In no way linked to my GCA friends but something that concerns me is the practise of charging "International Rates", I can understand that once upon a time the Australasian countries had weak currencies and the overseas player spending thousands to get there could afford a little extra for their golf. Now the tables have turned and the A$ is at parity with the US$ at 63p to the £ and the NZ$ is also relatively strong.

You should have asked me for a hit, Mark.  

Same price whatever.  Kyle Henderson paid $100 for 36 holes on a Sunday, same price as Terry Thornton from Adelaide.  

[Steve Kline]

Of course they should be able to do this. Clearly the market is okay with price. If foreigeners stopped coming and the clubs needed that revenue hen they would lower the price. To be against price discrimination is to be against viryually every company, especially ones that sell online.

[Harris Nepon]

The ones you speak of are some pretty big differences, but doens't Bandon Dunes do this? Courses in Arizona charge more for out of state, I think?

[Jason Hines]

This is or was a common pricing practice in Hawaii.  I have no problems with letting people price any way they want, they have to live with their revenue choices.
I would also theorize that some private or semi-private courses don’t want people playing multiple rounds as to not hinder member access.  However, this discipline is quickly fading in my area, some courses are doing anything for a $.

[Leo Barber]

Mark

Interesting point and I can certainly appreciate your angle.  However I would say that there is pricing tiers right throughout the golf industry no different to any other industry bound by market forces and your example found in Australiasia is but one.  I could name many more - Full Playing member, International Member, Midweek Member, Associate Member, Members Guest, Affilliated Members Guest, Member residing within 100miles of the course, Member residing outside of 100 miles, unaccompanied guest, high season, low season.  I am sure possibly that your own club may have some of these pricing tiers in some form?  I guess market forces will dictate and each tier will reflect the potential to attract custom or reflect the level of use, demand or repeat business in many cases.  I am not sure that it is a case of the International player affording to pay more rather the Club meeting the value placed on it by the market.

With regards to flights, hire cars and accomodation,  I would say that all of those industries regularly use price scaling that reflects those same market forces and demand.  I think if we flew on the same plane ride, hired two similar cars and stayed in the same hotel it would not be unusual to incur different total costs.

Lastly I am not sure that the local market is fragile rather the local market is just that - the local market and the prices are set accordingly to meet the demand or attract business if desirable.

[C. Sturges]

I was there last year and paid more than I ever have for golf.  The real thing is that I wanted to play private clubs and felt lucky to be able to.  This has been discussed about fees in the US.  Sometimes the rate is high, but we choose to pay it anyways to play the course.  If you do not like it, let your wallet do the talking and not play there.  I found many wonderfull courses that were very cheap and had more fun at than a couple of the big name courses. 
Bandon Dunes  offers a Oregon rate in the winter but during the summer it is if you are staying there or not.  Nothing about charging more for being out of the country, or atleast that was how it was on my last visit.
What where your favorite courses down under?
Chris

[Mark Chaplin]

JK - in that case I'll write to St Andrews and demand a large discount as the English tax payer more than contributes to Scotland!

Leo - of course it's virtually impossible to pay the same price on an airline or hotel but the price would be set on loadings not my address. Membership is slightly different as the locals are the ones who pay the most, distant memberships are set at attractive rates to encourage membership and loyalty to the club.

CS - In New Zealand Paraparaumu Beach is an excellent links course with some world class holes in 13, 16 and 17. It's interesting that PB has relatively few bunkers and is all the better for the humps, swayles and hollows around the greens. The fringes are kept nice and tight to allow the golfer and not the conditions to determine the shot. The course gets a little tight around the turn with 10 and 11 suffering from tight boundaries and 12 being a modest 3 shotter. The 8th deserves a mention, a short par four the fairly tight dogleg is just open fairly short rough without bunkers. The green is tiny with a bunker on the right side forcing a sensible tee shot down the left side, cut the corner and you are left with a 70-100yd pitch with zero room to work with. If anyone has a couple of good photos please post them. 16 is just drop dead gorgeous and like a good woman you either score well or bomb out!

I loved NSW and playing it a second time made me appreciate the course even more. Long driving is rewarded with big kick ons on 5 and 12 if you hit the down slopes. Again a short par 4 with no bunkers in the 14th hit the spot with me especially as in the Wednesday compo we played off the high tee. My only complaint is the 18yd wide fairway in a 35'ish yard wide corridor on the 15th IMO it's far too narrow but the course is in a national park so little can be done.

Kingston Heath is a delight and a very special place to place golf, I could comfortably see out my days just playing RCP and KH, it's that good.

Whilst only playing Royal Melbourne East once I was reminded just what a fine course it is and how many very good holes can be found there especially the par 3s.

RM West is a true test of golf with hard greens and lighting fast surfaces. The runaway 3rd green defeated me 3 out of 4 times and the 5th to 7th is a wonderful test of golf, is the 6th one of the finest holes in the entire game? RM West is only let down by the lack of a true par 5 but that is not the fault of RM or the course design more the march of technology.

We were privilaged to play the slightly altered Presidents Cup Composite Course where 17 & 18 East become 15 and 16 and 1 and 2 West holes 17 and 18, this is designed to make for a better matchplay finish.

Melbourne split on this trip KH 4, RMW 4 and RME 2.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark.

I may be wrong - but when many of these 'international' prices were set it took two of our dollars to match one American dollar.
Perhaps committees reasoned $400 Australian dollars was 'only' $200 US (and around 130 GBP) and that was a reasonable rate when compared with similar quality courses around the world.
Certainly $200 US would not have covered a game at Counry Down or even a few levels below at a place like Wentworth - which may be the world's most expensive fee relative to the architectural merit of the course.

Now $400 of our dollars is just over $400 US - and that is steep by any standards.

[Mark Chaplin]

Mike - it certainly noticed just how weak the GBP is today, we got no sympathy though as you guys were suffering for the last decade and the Barmy Army made sure you were aware of it!

I guess clubs like Royal Melbourne and NSW will always have demand exceeding supply just like the UK Open rota clubs so their pricing will hold firm, the second tier clubs may have to rethink their strategy especially with Barnbougle appearing to offer super value both on and off the course.

[Mike_Clayton]

 Mark - That is right - you can play two or three rounds at Barnbougle for the international price of a single game at some sandbelt clubs.
The trick, of course, is to play with a member and the rates are much lower.I assume less than $100.

[Carl Nichols]

I learned two years ago that Argentine residents pay considerably less for domestic flights than non-residents.

[Greg Tallman]

Why not look at it as a discount for locals? Would you still have a problem with it?

While one person calls out Bandon for the same practice why would it get a pass from others criticizing the practice in NZ?

Pat Robertson for President!!! LOL

[Benny Hillard]

in the last 12 months I have played many of Australia's finest courses, including almost all the sandbelts, with members and no round got near the $100 mark.
although i hear the Australian is very steep.

[Scott Warren]

Benny - The guest rate at The Aus is $165.

[Mike Benham]

While one person calls out Bandon for the same practice why would it get a pass from others criticizing the practice in NZ?

Since I was just at Bandon, I noticed that that policy is no longer in place, at least if you assume everything on the internet. 

In fact, it looks like they have gone the other way, not even allowing Oregonians to play at the resort during the May - Oct season.


Bandon Rates



 

[Benny Hillard]

Benny - The guest rate at The Aus is $165.

Scott
I can't imagine the Aus would be worth that much!
do you think it is?

ben

[Scott Warren]

I really enjoyed my day there. I couldn't justify that kind of coin regularly.

[Leo Barber]

CS - In New Zealand Paraparaumu Beach is an excellent links course with some world class holes in 13, 16 and 17. It's interesting that PB has relatively few bunkers and is all the better for the humps, swayles and hollows around the greens. The fringes are kept nice and tight to allow the golfer and not the conditions to determine the shot. The course gets a little tight around the turn with 10 and 11 suffering from tight boundaries and 12 being a modest 3 shotter. The 8th deserves a mention, a short par four the fairly tight dogleg is just open fairly short rough without bunkers. The green is tiny with a bunker on the right side forcing a sensible tee shot down the left side, cut the corner and you are left with a 70-100yd pitch with zero room to work with. If anyone has a couple of good photos please post them. 16 is just drop dead gorgeous and like a good woman you either score well or bomb out!

Very nice summation Mark.  A couple of photos beneath of a couple of the holes you have touched on



16th Hole PBGC 126m



8th Hole PBGC taken from behind the green.

[Sev K-H Keil]

The costs associated with providing the infrastructure that support the course.  Police, fire, roads, water, sewer, etc., etc.

Dear John:

Don't locals also benefit from the positive economic impact (see Cape Kidnappers)? --- the same argument can often work the other way around as well... so visitor's fees should be discounted if there's a positive net effect?

I feel less welcome when I see huge differentials like at CK or KC (especially, when combined with outrageous pro-shop prices) --- I have very little price sensitivity when it comes to (good) golf, but find all visitors should be treated equally.

[Sean_A]

Each golfer has to make up his mind about his breaking point for a game of golf.  Though there can be no doubt that golfers as a lot are as foolish about playing the big guns as any fool who ever lived.   

Ciao