[JC Jones]

JC:

Don't you think it's just possible that these ten are the top ten courses BECAUSE you've been sold on those foundation stories for so many years?

I am not saying they aren't great courses, I'm on record that they are.  But some of the exercise of rankings is about myth-making, and it cannot be just a coincidence that the top ten are also the courses whose myths have been honed to perfection for the past 75 years.
 

I love that question, I really do.  I think it is getting at the core of something really significant.  I think there are many great modern courses that are probably better than the classic courses ranked above them but they don't have the history, the mystique nor the perceived exclusivity.

I think you are right, a ranking is often half quality of the golf course and half narrative.

P.S. to your P.S. - I don't know.  That's why I said "mostly" because the course at the top of the list only had Dr. Mac on site 3 times and I assumed there were others.

[Mac Plumart]

I think it is getting at the core of something really significant

+1

[Carl Nichols]

The Jockey Club in Argentina may provide some good fodder here.  It's on a completely plain site -- no one could argue that it's a great site, and indeed it's probably well below average.  In addition, the guy who apparently was Mac's primary construction guy at the Jockey Club -- Luther Koontz -- went on to design a bunch of other courses in Argentina without Mac's help, many of which are completely ordinary (or worse).  You can argue about whether Jockey Club is a great course, but it's WAAAAY better than almost all of the older courses in Argentina, including courses that were built on better sites.

[Ed Oden]

Personally, I think Donald Ross is.    Yes, he created a handful of master works, but there's a lot (way too much, IMO) of his stuff out there that's clearly north of pedestrian, but well south of superb.  Given how many courses and clubs are still doing backflips over being "a Ross", I think he's the most overrated.

JME:

First of all, there's no argument yet....it usually takes somebody on the other side to creat that...

Shivas, I see Ross very differently.  So I will be your foil if you are looking for one.

[Ian Andrew]

The Jockey Club in Argentina may provide some good fodder here.  It's on a completely plain site -- no one could argue that it's a great site, and indeed it's probably well below average.  In addition, the guy who apparently was Mac's primary construction guy at the Jockey Club -- Luther Koontz -- went on to design a bunch of other courses in Argentina without Mac's help, many of which are completely ordinary (or worse).  You can argue about whether Jockey Club is a great course, but it's WAAAAY better than almost all of the older courses in Argentina, including courses that were built on better sites.

I have a facination with Mick Morcom and would say the same anology applies.

I admire a number of current architects for their skill and vision, but I'm only convinced that two or three have a special gift for routing.
I would only list a dozen of all the dead guys as special. It's a rare gift.

......Mackenzie had it in spades.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Because of the era when he was designing courses, he probably was using a greater number of workers.  This is a supposition based upon the knowledge that Rockaway Hunt Club had over 50 workers on the greens crew before the great depression.  This came from Jarvis Page who happened to grow up there in that time period and belonged to GCGC, Links, Cherry Valley at times.  He pointed out how the greens shrunk because they had only 4 to 5 caring for the course after the crash.  8 would think that with larger work crews, the greens probably got their basic shape in the short period of time the architect was on site

[Wade Schueneman]

Lots of people sit down for dinner and order a hot fudge sundae and a beer.

Sometimes the filet is too obvious

Well played, sir.

[Wade Schueneman]

I am not the MacKenzie expert that many on this site seem to be, but as to the question of his abilities as a router (as opposed to a builder) of golf courses, I am surpised that nonbody has yet to mention what I feel is a tremendous routing at Lahinch.  Of course, that is another great site, but to echo Ian's point, he didn't drop the ball.

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