Number 12 at Augusta National

[Ross Tuddenham]

Given how shallow the hole is it may not be possible to hit any club full or even a well grooved yardage.  This coupled with an unpredictable wind can only fill the player with doubt when standing over the ball.   I think that is why the pull long and left seems to happen quite often as it is the sort of shot you hit when trying to guide the ball instead of hitting it.

[Mike Hendren]

DT, sorry about that!  Kudo's young man.

[Phil McDade]

Halfway through the tournament, #12 is playing as the second-most difficult hole on the course, a full third of a stroke over par.

http://www.masters.com/en_US/scores/stats/index.html

Statistics can "overtell," but the greatness of the back nine at Augusta is revealed the numbers above. The two hardest holes on the course -- 11 and 12 -- are quickly followed by three of the five easiest, including the two easiest ones. The front nine has yielded four eagles (including a freak hole-out on #1) and only 1 "other," while the back nine has yielded 17 eagles and 9 others. The back nine has yielded nearly 50 more birdies than the front nine, yet nearly as many bogeys.

Still the best nine holes in all of golf.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I just wanted to say that the 12th at ANGC does fit in with the balance of the golf courrse.

There's no disconnect in the character of the hole or the continuity of play.
No more so than # 3 on the front nine.

And, the shot into # 12 can be not much different than the shot into # 15, with its narrow green.
Or, the shot into # 3, another narrow green.

# 12 follows two very difficult downhill holes on the back nine, and while it's only about 150 yards in length, the target is small, the margin of error slim, and the consequences for failure, severe.

It's a wonderful connector between # 11 and # 13.

For those claiming that the hole doesn't fit, what amount of play on # 12 brings you to that conclusion ?

[David_Tepper]

Pat Mucci -

Is there any green at AGNC that is a close to being as small and/or as flat as the green on #12?

DT

[Phil McDade]

Pat Mucci -

Is there any green at AGNC that is a close to being as small and/or as flat as the green on #12?

DT

David:

By definition, one green at Augusta will be smaller than the others. Is 12's flatness (and I'd agree it seems pretty flat relative to others at the course) any more divergent than 14's green, with its wild contours and internal humps? Perhaps the designers/alterers figured the uncertainty of the tee shot at 12, the penal nature of the miss, and the small target had to be compensated by flattening the putting surface.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat Mucci -

Is there any green at AGNC that is a close to being as small and/or as flat as the green on #12?

David,

# 3 and # 7 are small and play small.

But, what's pretty unique about ANGC is that other greens can play small depending upon your angle of attack on the approach and the location of the hole.

# 2 and # 9 might be a good example.

# 15 plays small in that there's not a lot of room to miss that green, front to back.
# 4 can play small in that there are gaping bunkers in front and OB long.

The thing to remember is that if you're above the hole, putting downhill is very demanding.

As to being flat, # 11 doesn't have much in the way of undulation or slope.

Comparitively speaking, # 8 is fairly benign, and I gues you could say that of # 1 to a degree.

What can't be seen on TV is how the upper tiers on # 13 and # 16 are sloped, NOT flat. making hole locations on those tiers incredibly difficult to putt to

Visually, the green on # 15 is intimidating to hit to because you see the water short, the steep bank leading to the water, the water left and the water long.

Strangely, some of the holes that appear easy on TV are far more difficult and vice versa

The really neat thing about ANGC is that we're all so familiar with it after watching The Masters for decades and decades, yet, the course takes you by surprise with the elevation changes, slopes of the fairways and greens, and, undulations in the greens.

It remains a wonderful golf course from the Member's tees, although, I regret the need to narrow the course with trees and rough, but, I understand that that's a necessary evil to retain the course's challenge for the best golfers in the world

[David_Tepper]

Pat Mucci -

I appreciate your thoughtful analysis & perspective on the course.

Please note that, in my first comments on this thread, I clearly said both that I had never seen the course in person and that I thought #12 was a good hole.

Whether #12 "fits in" with the rest of the course can certainly be debated. However, I believe it is an absolute fact that the green on #12 is both the smallest and flattest on the course. That certainly does set the hole apart.

DT   

[Matt Kardash]

What I find funny is that people will say the 17th at TPC Sawgrass is a bad penal golf hole but will then say how great a hole this is. While I like the 12th at Augusta, I also acknowledge that it is way more difficult and penal.

I'm pretty sure I saw a couple guys chip to #12 at ANGC today.
haven't seen that at TPC Sawgrass 17...........

The green at TPC is probably 3 times as big a target, AND I think the hole is even 10 or 15 yards shorter! There really is no reason anyone should ever hit it in the water at TPC. I bet you the green at TPC is bigger than the green plus the chippable surroundings at the 12th at Augusta. By the way, at the 12th you see a lot of balls in the water short and unplayables long in the bush. Same thing, really.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat Mucci -

I appreciate your thoughtful analysis & perspective on the course.

Please note that, in my first comments on this thread, I clearly said both that I had never seen the course in person and that I thought #12 was a good hole.

Whether #12 "fits in" with the rest of the course can certainly be debated. However, I believe it is an absolute fact that the green on #12 is both the smallest and flattest on the course. That certainly does set the hole apart.

David, not when you've just walked off of the 11th green, which is relatively benign.
If you walked off # 14, I could understand your perspective, but, walking off # 11 green, and putting # 12 is an almost seemless transition

I think the approach on # 11 is far, far, far more frightening, even if you were at the same distance, since the fairway is canted, down and the the left, and the green angled with water and the fronting slope directing balls into the water.

What did Hogan say, "If I hit the 11th green, you know I've pulled or mishit my 2nd shot.
And, if you play out to the right, the recovery is a pretty scarey shot.
If Larry Mize doesn't hit the pin, does he go in the water ?