Value is a relative term. I started this thread not as a critique against places that provide low octane golf which is enjoyed at a cheap price. NY and PA have a rich PRIVATE golf history -- the public side and the GAP that comes from it is what I mentioned here and I stand by that original premise.
Matt,
You didn't start this as a critique against places that have low octane golf?
Read all the paragraphs before that statement - that's what your entire post to me is. I'm not taking offense – I was just trying to understand what it was you wanted to “discuss” (as I thought that’s what this board was for).
The essence of your first post was “Wow, NY & Penn Public Golf is really lacking.” Sounds like a critique, but some of us assumed that you may be interested in having a discussion in why things may have evolved that way.
We told you it may be because of demographics, topography, bad efforts by archies, etc.
You essentially responded “that’s no excuse, they did better in Indiana / Colorado etc.!!”
However, you don’t offer any opinion as to WHY there may be a gap. Rather, you just keep stating more emphatically that the gap exists (e.g. now, it’s a “GRAND CANYON GAP”). So, unless you offer any suggestions as to WHY there is such a gap, I’m assuming that all you’re doing if offering a critique of “low octane golf” (in your opinion).
If that’s your intent, that’s fine, but then what do you want from people in a discussion forum?
Are you looking for us to simply echo your thoughts and say “yeah, the Public Golf sure is lame!”
Do you want us to join you in hand-wringing and mourn for the missed opportunity at Turning Stone? Is there something we as New York Golfers should have done differently? Should I protest / boycott an opportunity to play there because it’s “not as good as it could have been” or can I accept that it’s not a complete “dog track” and take it in if I’m offered a proper value price. I’m not going to waste a whole bunch of time obsessing about it.
Or do you want us to try and convice you that your critique is incorrect? That’s rhetorical, because we know that’s an absolute no-win with you.
If anyone disagrees with your perception, all you ever do is pull out your “I’ve put in the legwork and seen more, so your opinion is summarily dismissed.” If that’s not how you intend to come off, you may want to reconsider your approach, because I know that’s how a number of people perceive it. When I was going back-and-forth with Brad Klein on Ballyhack, why do you suppose he wrote “I don’t like to go all Matt Ward on people” when they disagree with him?
You obviously have plenty of experience that could be helpful in a forum like this. I’d be very interested in hearing WHY you think New York State Publics didn’t keep pace (i.e. what factors contributed to the situation, not just a critique of the situation).
But if you just want a forum to say “I've seen so much of the country - it’s nothing special,” have at it. I’m still going to have a blast playing fun courses like Byrncliff, Holiday Valley & Ravenwood, and enjoy them despite their limitations. I’ve played them enough to know there’s more there than “farmland” or “just holes in the ground.”