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ChrisB (Guest)

Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« on: January 11, 2002, 11:54:37 AM »
#4 will be lengthened from 180 to 213 yards, while the great #13 will go from 159 to 191 yards.

These holes are tough enough at their current length (both greens are quite narrow, and #13 is just plain hard to hit whatever the club--can't imagine it at 191); both holes run roughly in the same direction, so the wind should have the same basic effect on them.  I would not want to play them into a stiff wind!  #13 in particular should provide plenty of exciting recovery shots.

Any thoughts on these changes?  Do they make the holes better or just harder?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2002, 05:40:48 PM »
ChrisB:

Having just played (another) two rounds at Muirfield this
summer past, I can assure you that these two holes are
difficult enough for us everyday golfers. :-[

However, at the Professional level, a 180-yard club from
twenty years ago (a 6-iron for Nicklaus or Trevino?) translates
into a 213-yard shot today (a 6-iron for most pros today),
and a 159-yard 7 iron is today's 190-yard 7-iron.

So, the end result is that the more things change, the more
they stay the same! :P
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2002, 08:25:49 PM »
So Muirfield's four one shot holes will now be approximately 213y, 195y, 191y, and 200y respectively in length? Hmmm...not great on paper.

Plus, only the 7th plays in a westerly direction, the others are all easterly, so it's not like at NSW GC where the four one shotters point in four different direction, with the wind having a drastically different effect on each one.

The 13th is (was) one of my favorite holes in golf - watching the pros have to keep such a length shot under the wind was always fascinating to watch.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_D._Bernhardt

Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2002, 06:56:41 AM »
I too wish 13 had been left alone. However, while we discuss having the par 3's run in different directions, is it not more important they reflect different shot values and strategy than wind direction. ie the ole 130 to 150 short, redan, 240 long and or some play off a 200 to 215 downhill hole or a great play off 11 at TOC.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Cirba

Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2002, 01:59:11 PM »
Yuck!

Why not just make #9 & 17 par fours and host the US Open?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Ran Morrissett

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Muirfield & the test of time
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2002, 12:54:15 PM »
This topic seemed stranged and I finally figured out why - one virtually never hears of changes to Muirfield.

Some of that can be explained by the private nature of the course/club vis-a-vis a place like St. Andrews that's under the microscope.

Still, it got me thinking (finally I know!) - has Muirfield seen the least change in the past fifty years of any of the Open rota courses?

Birkdale's green complexes were changed last go around, RSG was changed by Pennick in the 1970s, Hoylake is being changed at present, Turnberry's 18th has seen several tee changes, St. Andrews has lots of new tees and has seen plenty of bunker work.

Royal Lytham and Troon have hung in there well but Muirfield seems to have really stood the test of time EXTREMELY well, don't you think? What significant changes have occured in the past 50 years there? I am not aware of any new bunkers being added or any green complexes having been materially changed.

What it is about the design that lends itself to minimal tinkering? Perhaps, as many suggest, it is the perfect links test after all  :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Richard_Goodale

Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2002, 02:13:10 PM »
Ran

My recollection is that Muirfield has, over the past 25 years, lengthened the course significantly by adding new "championship" tees from time to time, just as have TOC and Troon.  Mujirfield can do it more "seamlessly" than TOC, for example, becuase it has more available land for the purpose.  The ability of all those 3 course to stand the test of time attests to the quality of their green complexes, which have not needed to be changed, with the notable exception of the completely new 9th green built at Troon in the early 1980's.

Cheers

Rich
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2002, 06:11:06 PM »
Richard:

Muirfield is getting to the point where they won't be able
to add many more new tees.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Richard_Goodale

Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2002, 06:20:51 PM »
That doesn't surprise me, Paul.  I assume they'll keep it in the rota, though.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2002, 06:46:46 PM »
Richard:

Doesn't matter much as long as there is links WEATHER.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Muirfield's greens
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2002, 08:06:01 AM »
Muirfield measured 6,894 yards in 1976. How long will it play in this upcoming Open?

Have they added 3% in length over the past 25 years? We know where at least 65 yards has come, based on the original post.

One way a course stay competitive against advancements in technology is by weather as Paul says and another way is through fierce green contours/speed of greens. Oakmont, Pine Valley, Seminole, Crystal Downs, Royal Melbourne, Augusta, Merion, etc. remain full of challenge even on calm days thanks to their greens.

However, I don't recall Muirfield having overtly treacherous greens. I am sure there are some - which are they?

Faldo once praised the contours of the short two shot 2nd and 11th greens and my brother once putted off the front of the 7th into a greenside bunker, making the caddies break down in laughter. What are some other examples of interesting greens at Muirfield?

Or perhaps is Muirfield less about interior green contours and more about how such green complexes as the 4th and 16th shunt balls off to the sides?

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Muirfield Lenghtening #4 and #13 for the Open
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2002, 04:22:44 PM »
Ran:

Let's hear more about your brother putting off the 7th into
the bunker !! ;) ;) :-[ :-[
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Logged
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG
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