[Tim Gavrich]

(This is a study break idea; I'm in the midst of writing a paper for my Political Murder in Latin America class, so I need something positive to think about for a few minutes.  Forgive me if this seems silly.)

All--

The one time I played it--in the final round of the North and South Junior a few years ago--Pinehurst No. 2 appealed to my head.  Palmetto Golf Club appealed to the heart, though.

In college tournaments, Callaway Gardens has appealed to the head while the golf courses at Camp Lejeune appeal to the heart.

Nearer home for me, Hartford Golf Club appeals to the head, but the Country Club of Farmington appeals to the heart.

In my recollections, Sunningdale (Old) stirs the head while The Old Course and Crail (Balcomie) stir the heart.

The English major (and therefore over-analyzer) in me wants to know: of the golf courses you've played, which courses/types of courses appeal to your head and which appeal to your heart?

[Mark Saltzman]

Tim,

I have no idea what appeals to head/heart mean, but here's what came to mind (and heart).

Appealed to the head: National GC of Canada, Merion, Oakmont

Appealed to the heart: TOC, Pete Dye GC, Bigwin Island (my home course)

Mark

[Peter Pallotta]

Tim - how's this for overanalyzing: I think what appeals to the heart also appeals to the head, it's just that we don't notice it because the heart takes in EVERYTHING and transmutes it into a whole other/new experience, such that we aren't as conscious as we normally are of the constant chattering in our minds/heads. By contrast, that which we say appeals to our head usually leaves our hearts cold, and so there is no experience of 'otherness' or of the new. In other words, I think our heads take over when we've seen it all before.  

(I just didn't want you to feel alone in your english-major-ness)

Peter

[JNC Lyon]

Peter,

I might say the exact opposite.  I will love any course that makes me think.  The more a course makes me think, the more it appeals to my heart.

[Mark Saltzman]

JNC,

that's very interesting.  I love strategic golf courses, but I they don't appeal to my heart.  I have only had the opportunity to play Merion and Oakmont once each, but I can probably still tell you my strategy on every shot.  They were great golfing experiences and I wouldn't trade them for anything.  That being said, I wouldn't say they appealed to my heart.  It was too much 'work'.

...I think I'm going to have to come back to this one.  I'm starting to question myself...

Mark

[Peter Pallotta]

JNC - I think the heart is very smart; it's just not 'book smart', nor is it very talkative.  If I walk off the 18th green in LOVE with a course, it's in part because it made me think; but if I walk off a course praising how much it made me think, I'd probably APPRECIATE it, but I don't think I'd love it.

Peter

[Tim Gavrich]

I'm enjoying and appreciating the responses so far.  And Mark, even though you said you weren't sure what I meant, you hit on exactly what I was trying to say.  Head golf courses evoke an intellectual response while heart golf courses evoke an emotional one, I suppose.

Cool stuff.

--Tim

[Brad Wilbur]

For the heart, nothing has appealed to me any more than Kahuku.  It's a little nine hole course with irrigated greens (sort of), fairways that depend upon nature for rain, and trade winds.  I especially remember a small , raised green par three that was dead into a two club wind, and would have made the real Donald (Ross) estatic.  Combine that with playing with a local for the last four holes, and then deciding we were having enough fun that we should go around again!  It was hard to play that course and not think of what golf must have been like in the old days.  Conditioning was 0/10, sometimes that can almost add to the experience.

[Jason Walker]

Not sure I can come up with anything that appeals to my "head", but Southern Hills CC appeals to my "heart" for many reasons--my first "big" course I was familiar with, the 1982 PGA with Ray Floyd ( but more importantly meeting Jack Nicklaus as a 9 year old golf nut, along wth Hubert Green, Jerry Pate....all great guys for a young golf nut), playing junior golf there, as a basis for all the courses I designed in church, wondering what exactly was it about the bunkers I loved so much,  and then in 2007, 21 years after my family moved from Tulsa,watching the PGA Championship and getting to play the Monday after with a media friend.  The course already had my heart from a GCA standpoint...but I was all-in after that.  Love the place.

[BCyrgalis]

Tim,

What I think you're meaning to get at is at the essence what makes up good golf architecture.  Leaving a golf course with no emotional attachment is like having a one-night stand: enjoyable, maybe; memorable, only because it happened.  Great golf courses make you fall in a deep, unromantic love, that at times can be intellectual, but is always rooted in the longing to return.

Great golf courses grab at you somewhere you can't explain -- maybe the heart is a good way to put it -- and if your brain follows with some semblance of logic, then so be it.  But you know a good golf course when it doesn't let you go, ever.  Now why that happens is more for the philosophy major rather than the English major (of which I am one of brethren -- if you ever finish that paper).  But Political Murder in Latin America, now that's a topic... 

[Chris Shaida]

Peter,

I might say the exact opposite.  I will love any course that makes me think.  The more a course makes me think, the more it appeals to my heart.

Makes you 'think' about what though? (that's not intended as a smart alec-y question) is it purely for you an experience of 'thinking' about the shot itself or are you also 'thinking' about the landscape, the weather, about whether you are thinking about things youshouldn't be thinking about?

I ask because it seemed to me that Peter was onto something with the heart=head+heart and head=(just)head but you perceived that as 'the exact opposite' of your experience.  It seems you might be saying something like 'for me to get to my heart you have to go through my head'?


Tim, I cant wait for the 'golf courses that make me think of politcal murder' thread (after you finish your paper of course).

[Tim Gavrich]

Brett--

I like that response and would agree that determining the extent to which a golf course appeals to one's head and the extent to which a golf course appeals to one's heart are somewhat important to determining the excellence of that golf course.  And I would agree that people's favorite golf courses can appeal to both, to great extents.  But is it necessary that they do so?

I'm not so sure.  I still would say that Yale is my favorite golf course anywhere, but I would not call it a golf course that appeals to the head to remotely the extent that it appeals to the heart.  Part of its greatness--a critical part, I think--is how outrageous and bold and bizarre it is at times.  The fact that one does not generally plod one's way around Yale is to its advantage, at least for my taste.  Heart courses I can think of: Newport CC, Bulls Bay (any Strantz course, really), Cuscowilla.

I've not played it yet (this summer, I hope), but Bethpage Black strikes me as almost the consummate appeal to the head.  It is a rigorous test that brings the player from tough hole to tough hole with essentially no letup.  If the player executes shot after shot, he/she will be rewarded shot after shot, it seems.  Other primarily "head" courses I've played that come to mind: Doral--Blue Monster, Bryan Park, CC of Waterbury.

Of course, there are hybrid courses, which complicates matters.  I'd count Shelter Harbor, Pine Needles, and the Greenbrier course at The Greenbrier among these, personally.

~ ~ ~

Chris--

I'll have to give some thought to that thread.  It could be a bit of a stretch but hey, stretching the meanings of things is what English majors do best, right?

[Jeff_Brauer]

Tim,

Quite a lyrical way to put it, but I know just what you mean.  There are courses you know are strategically better and more challenging, and there are courses with charm.

In GBI, I would say the classic "appeals to the head" course would be Muirfield, with the "head likers" like JN touting, while the quirk, scale, charm of courses like Sunningdale (to me) or maybe even Prestwick appeal to the "heart likers", even if less of a test.

To me, good test of golf = appeals to the head, and beauty, charm, smaller scale, nice walk, etc. = appeal to the heart.  I think one of the reasons Merion is so good is that it really has both.  I think the pro tour plays this out many weeks, when the pros "know" that a new Pete Dye course offers the best test of their skills, but a place with history and charm, like Colonial appeals to the heart, even if the doglegs are now too short for their standard play.

Best I can come up with.

[Norbert P]

For the heart, nothing has appealed to me any more than Kahuku.       . . .

  After playing a half dozen or so "nice" courses on Oahu, I was told about this walking course for 10 bucks.  My friend didn't think much of it, or at least he played it down, but it  became my favorite of the trip.  Great "B Movie" stuff here and some interesting architecture. Played it twice.  Turtle Bay Resort can kiss my ass if they wanna charge me for parking.          Kahuku's got soul.

[Garland Bayley]

quirk appeals to the heart. strategy appeals to the head. I'll take an alps any day before a "Raynor's prize dogleg".

[Wade Whitehead]

Head: It's a great course, so you enjoy it.

Heart: You enjoy it, so it's a great course.

WW

[Wade Whitehead]

Head: stroke play

Heart: match play

WW

[Mac Plumart]

Head...The Golf Club

Heart...John A. White

[Mike_Trenham]

Head - Pine Needles
Heart - Mid Pines

Head - Stonewall Original
Heart - Stonewall North

Head - Oak Hill East
Heart - Oak Hill West

Head - Bethpage Black
Heart - Bethpage Red

Head - Manufacturers
Heart - LuLu

[Garland Bayley]

Head Pacific Dunes
Heart Astoria Country Club

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