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JNC Lyon

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MAY RIVER
« on: March 15, 2011, 05:30:19 PM »
May River is the second modern course of the year that I have played and really enjoyed.  For those of you who are not familiar with May River, the course is located near Hilton Head Island, South Carolina near a settlement called Palmetto Bluff.  The golf course winds through the pine and live oak forests near the bluff and also skirts May River on multiple holes.  Some thoughts:

May River is an exceptional modern golf course.  When traveling to Hilton Head, it is to be worn down by narrow golf courses through house-laden forests and marshes.  May River is completely different.  The fairways are very spacious, allowing for plenty of strategy off the tee.  A few trees come into play in very strategic locations, but mostly they set a gorgeous backdrop for the golf. 

May River is also refreshing because of its natural, uncontrived appearance.  Jack Nicklaus' team (including our own Kurt Bowman) did a great job with the bunkering, which is low-profile and unobtrusive to the surrounds.  The smaller bunkers are simple carvings from the earth, while the larger bunkers sprawl gently into the fairways and then recede into the forests.  The bunkers create all sorts of strategic decisions.  Some, such as the par fours at 9 and 16, are simple bunkers on the inside of the dogleg that protect the best angle into the green.  Others are centerline hazards that create all sorts of decisions based on the day's hole location and the player's ability.  The mid-fairway bunkers at the 8th, 10th, and 12th dictate strategic options back to the tee.  In the case of 10, the player must make a decision on whether to attack to the green in two or lay back in three.  His decision will cause him to play to one side of of the centerline bunker (and tree) or the other.  Each of the five par fives at May River is filled with strategic choices like the ones showcased at the 10th.

The marsh holes at May River are also done tastefully.  A particular favorite of mine was the 7th, a short, fish-hook par four along the tidal marsh.  The hole features a very shallow green jutting out into the marsh.  Most players will layup to the right and then pitch across the marsh for the second shot.  The hole could have been an example of one-dimensional target golf.  However, the landing area is wide enough to accommodate slight mis-hits, and the green is beautifully constructed so that the closer the golfer plays to the left side of the green, the more exacting his approach will be.  There is plenty of bailout room to the right of the green, but the golfer will have to decide beforehand to play to this side of the green.

Finally, the greens at May River are a treat.  I tend to enjoy golf courses that are option-filled off the tee and then become stern at the greens.  This type of courses brings golfers of all shapes and sizes into the mix.  In this way, May River is much more a mental test than a physical one.  While some greens, like the ones at 13 and (the modified punchbowl) 15 were set down low, most of the greens were built up from their surroundings.  These greens, bordered by bunkers and fairway-mown chipping areas, leave all different types of recovery shots.  I played shots with the putter, 8-iron, and wedge in equal numbers from around the greens.  These green sites force the golfer to stay alert and keep his wits about him when he misses the green.  When he can do that, he will succeed at May River.  When he can't, he will be in for a long day.

May River might not be the type of course you'd expect from Nicklaus: it is filled with strategy, fits brilliantly into the natural environment, and defends itself at the greens.  It is hard to imagine a better strategic test of golf.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2011, 07:39:29 PM »
I've never played it, but it is high up on my list.  Ran's profile is very interesting as well.  Any photos to share?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2011, 08:08:20 PM »
No photos unfortunately, Mac.  It's definitely a place you should check out though.  I haven't played enough courses in the area to compare, but I think I'd put it near the level of the Ocean Course.  I was just stunned by the amount of strategy out there.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Brock Peyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2011, 09:54:05 PM »
May River is one of my absolute favorite courses and my favorite Nicklaus course that I have played.  On top of the course, the club is just a wonderful place and development itself is amazing.  I played it about 3 years ago and have been dying to get back ever since.  It's one of those places that you starting dreading that the round is coming to an end.  I can't tell you how many times I have reviewed the pictures and read the review on this site as well and on their website.  Great place, go out of your way to visit it.

Brock Peyer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2011, 09:54:42 PM »
Also, the short game area is a blast.  You could spend a day messing around out there.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2011, 10:02:47 PM »
I'm so glad you added May River to your trip.  I KNEW you would like it!!!
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 10:22:44 PM »
Concur with everyone's praise of May River and Palmetto Bluff. It's a great winter or early spring getaway.

Ryan Admussen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 10:25:15 PM »
Is staying at the resort required to play?

David Lott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2011, 10:59:00 PM »
No, Ryan, it is not. All you need is cash.
David Lott

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2011, 11:23:20 PM »
Thanks I hope to play there later this month. cheers

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2011, 10:22:30 AM »
I'd like to hear some specific comments from others about the course.  Anything you thought could have been done better?  Were the trees too intrusive in spots?  Do the par threes get repetitive?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2011, 10:34:30 AM »
JNC,

Golfweek ranks around 130 Modern courses above May River.  Which ones have you played that you didn't like?

Here is the link: http://www.golfweek.com/news/golfweeks-best/modern-courses/

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2011, 10:43:18 AM »
John,

I've played very few courses on that list.  However, after playing both Galloway National (27) last week and May River this week, I would have to say that May River is a better golf course.  I liked Galloway very much, but May River was more strategic on the fours and fives.  Additionally, May River has a superior routing.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2011, 10:51:15 AM »
What makes for a better routing? Thanks.
Mr Hurricane

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2011, 11:06:12 AM »
Jim,

As we have discussed here before, Galloway suffers from an awkward piece of property, meaning there are three long walks between greens and tees.  In addition, Galloway features many walks back to tees that can be taxing and grating by the end of the round.  Furthermore, most holes at Galloway only run East-West, with North-South holes come only at the ends of the property. 

May River, on the other hand, fans out gently from the clubhouse.  There are no crossings in the routing, and, while greens and tees are spread out, the walks are leisurely strolls through forest and marsh rather than hikes back to tees.  May River's routing also turns in several different directions, meaning that the wind will blow from all over the place at different points during the round.

In short, May River's routing is gentle and graceful, whereas Galloway's is awkward and staggered.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2011, 12:44:12 PM »
Played May River a few years ago on a trip to Hilton Head. During the same trip we played Long Cove and Old South.

May River is an wonderful property and the course is challenging, entertaining and quirky in spots.

Fun green complexes, nice mix of short and long with the exception of the 5's which are all between 555-575 (though all play very different). Just an enjoyable golf course.

Favorite holes: 2,6,7,10,12

The only hoels I took exception to were the 9th... just out of character with the est of the course (sorry cannot really explein... just felt different) and the 18th I particularly disliked... lake left, lake right... seen it a million times. Unfortunate that the stately oak tree some 75 yards left of the green could not have been worked more into the routing.

For the record I far preferred May River to Long Cove. 

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2011, 01:02:02 PM »
Jim,

As we have discussed here before, Galloway suffers from an awkward piece of property, meaning there are three long walks between greens and tees.  In addition, Galloway features many walks back to tees that can be taxing and grating by the end of the round.  Furthermore, most holes at Galloway only run East-West, with North-South holes come only at the ends of the property. 

May River, on the other hand, fans out gently from the clubhouse.  There are no crossings in the routing, and, while greens and tees are spread out, the walks are leisurely strolls through forest and marsh rather than hikes back to tees.  May River's routing also turns in several different directions, meaning that the wind will blow from all over the place at different points during the round.

In short, May River's routing is gentle and graceful, whereas Galloway's is awkward and staggered.

Thanks. I look forward to playing May River soon.
Mr Hurricane

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2011, 08:25:13 PM »
To me the big four of Jack's works are Mayacama, Muirfield Villiage, Bear's Club and Pronghorn (push Sebanok and Concession off as a co-design).  I know others (especially Matt and Pat) are rolling their eyes but these, to me, are the architecural statements/contributions to the GCA world by the JN group.

I have not yet played May River.

For those of you who have played the courses listed above where does May River rank, as compared to the above listed courses, on your personal lists?

JC

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2011, 09:03:44 PM »
To me the big four of Jack's works are Mayacama, Muirfield Villiage, Bear's Club and Pronghorn (push Sebanok and Concession off as a co-design).  I know others (especially Matt and Pat) are rolling their eyes but these, to me, are the architecural statements/contributions to the GCA world by the JN group.

I have not yet played May River.

For those of you who have played the courses listed above where does May River rank, as compared to the above listed courses, on your personal lists?

JC

Jonathon. Have you played Cabo del Sol? Just curious.

At any rate I would guess May River would rank ahead of Pronghorn, nearly on par with Mayacama and below Muirfield Village. There are those in the company (or formerly so) that would have told you that you should see Mayacama, May River amd Dismal River to see the best of Jack's more recent work. Muirfiield is a different story all together.

Wayne Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2011, 02:39:06 AM »
 Played May River as a suggested throw in on a trip that included Ocean Course at Kiawah, Harbor Town, Cassique, Long Cove, and Chechessee....   thought May River was outstanding, with as good a set of par 3's as we played on the trip.  Wonderful practice facility, immaculately groomed, and terrific caddies.  Would rate it higher than Cassique, Long Cove, and Chechessee.  Haven't played Dismal since they made some changes there, but it was in no way the equal of May River previously.  Bear's Club is very solid although I thought the greens were a little over the top ( too many greens- within-the green).. Muirfield Village cannot be compared with anything else Jack has done in my opinion... just fabulous in every way!

Jonathan Cummings

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2011, 05:53:04 AM »
Greg - no I haven't played Cabo but know it's well thought of.  I forgot about Dismal - it's way up there as well.  Wayne - I've played everything in the HH area, some many times (except May).  Your report puts May high on my "to play" list.  I agree with you - others may not be partial to it but I love Muirfield Village.  Conditioning off the map and some of the best hole-to-hole variety in JN's portfolio.  JC

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2011, 08:52:50 PM »
Greg,

Good take on May River.  I enjoyed the 9th because of the fairway and greenside contours that were very subtle but made the hole more interesting than the usual long, slogging par four.  I see what you are saying about the 18th hole, but I still think it is a solid finishing hole.  It was very different from the other par fives, and the centerline bunker on the layup second shot makes for some great interest.  Also, I would much rather see this type of hole than the stock long par four to close.  My Dad made a 4 here, and I made a 7.  I thought those two scores demonstrated just how interesting a trouble-laden par five can be as a finisher.

Additionally, I think I found more variety in the fives than you did, probably because I was playing up one set of tees.  15 played at 470 for us and was excellent as a short par five.  Generally, I thought all of the par fives were great.  They each had plenty of width to allow for decisions, and the bunkering and waste areas on each was phenomenal.  Modern par fives tend to be downers for me, but these five were some of the best I've seen as a set.

I am glad others will be seeing May River in the near future.  If you are taking a caddie (guests are required to, I believe), ask for Bobby.  He doubled for my Dad and I, and he did a great job reading the greens and helping us get to know the course.  May River is a great walking/caddie layout, and any GCAer will really enjoy their time there.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2011, 09:03:43 PM »
Greg,

Good take on May River.  I enjoyed the 9th because of the fairway and greenside contours that were very subtle but made the hole more interesting than the usual long, slogging par four.  I see what you are saying about the 18th hole, but I still think it is a solid finishing hole.  It was very different from the other par fives, and the centerline bunker on the layup second shot makes for some great interest.  Also, I would much rather see this type of hole than the stock long par four to close.  My Dad made a 4 here, and I made a 7.  I thought those two scores demonstrated just how interesting a trouble-laden par five can be as a finisher.

Additionally, I think I found more variety in the fives than you did, probably because I was playing up one set of tees.  15 played at 470 for us and was excellent as a short par five.  Generally, I thought all of the par fives were great.  They each had plenty of width to allow for decisions, and the bunkering and waste areas on each was phenomenal.  Modern par fives tend to be downers for me, but these five were some of the best I've seen as a set.

I am glad others will be seeing May River in the near future.  If you are taking a caddie (guests are required to, I believe), ask for Bobby.  He doubled for my Dad and I, and he did a great job reading the greens and helping us get to know the course.  May River is a great walking/caddie layout, and any GCAer will really enjoy their time there.

In fariness I did say the 5's played differently but thyat the yardages were very similar. Strategies were not (for me) but for the longer player perhaps?

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2011, 09:45:27 PM »
Greg,

Good take on May River.  I enjoyed the 9th because of the fairway and greenside contours that were very subtle but made the hole more interesting than the usual long, slogging par four.  I see what you are saying about the 18th hole, but I still think it is a solid finishing hole.  It was very different from the other par fives, and the centerline bunker on the layup second shot makes for some great interest.  Also, I would much rather see this type of hole than the stock long par four to close.  My Dad made a 4 here, and I made a 7.  I thought those two scores demonstrated just how interesting a trouble-laden par five can be as a finisher.

Additionally, I think I found more variety in the fives than you did, probably because I was playing up one set of tees.  15 played at 470 for us and was excellent as a short par five.  Generally, I thought all of the par fives were great.  They each had plenty of width to allow for decisions, and the bunkering and waste areas on each was phenomenal.  Modern par fives tend to be downers for me, but these five were some of the best I've seen as a set.

I am glad others will be seeing May River in the near future.  If you are taking a caddie (guests are required to, I believe), ask for Bobby.  He doubled for my Dad and I, and he did a great job reading the greens and helping us get to know the course.  May River is a great walking/caddie layout, and any GCAer will really enjoy their time there.

In fariness I did say the 5's played differently but thyat the yardages were very similar. Strategies were not (for me) but for the longer player perhaps?

Maybe true on 4 and 8, although I thought the shorter hitter could challenge the waste areas on a layup for a better angle in.  On the other hand, the 10th is a hole that has strategy for all shapes and sizes.  15's punchbowl green is also a hoot, regardless of whether you are going for the green or not.  In general, May River caters to all types of players because it has width and defends par at the green.  This seems like a departure from the typical modern layout.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Bruce Wellmon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: MAY RIVER
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2012, 01:00:21 PM »
Knowing I had an outing at May River yesterday, I didn't attend the round during Dixie Cup 2012.
Let's just say I was impressed.
A great vibe to the drive in and the club. A wonderful walk.
Good room off the tees, but then the fun begins. From what I would consider challenging greens to hit the PROPER place, to areas that fall off, to the numerous collection areas that I spent a good deal of time working on my short game, it is a great set of greens. I hit putts from well off the green, to chips, bump and runs, and "flops." 
I really appreciated the punchbowl nature of the front left of the par 5 15th which, from the fairway, had a "saddle" appearance a la the par 3 at Dismal Nicklaus and the par 3 17th, where I hit the kickplate, running down close to the hole.


The par 3 6th with it's small target green.