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Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
A must read - "Driving the Green"
« on: January 30, 2002, 06:56:37 AM »
"Driving the Green" by John Strawn is a must read for anybody interested in golf course architecture and learning what it takes to build a golf course.  It might prove eye opening for many to see what control the golf architect "really" has or doesn't have when building a new course ;) !  

At a minimum, many will be able to empathize a bit more with why sometimes you end of with a Pine Hill instead of a recreated Pine Valley, or what a course like Nantucket or Pacific Dunes might have gone through to get built or why The XYZ (you fill in the name) Golf Club turned out the way it did!!  

Read it and you'll see you don't just go find the best golf holes on the property and start construction!  We all wish it was that way but it's not!
Mark
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2002, 11:53:39 AM »
Mark, I read it in '92 or '93 when it came out.  It is a wonderful insight into the process as you say.  But, it is somewhat site specific when it comes to all the enviro hoops they had to jump through to build the course in that territory.  I liked the digression to Dasher and Hills project where Strawn speaks of the superior land and course it produced at Seville as a good contrast to the mcuk they had at IronHOrse.  Also, Strawn's ending about the innate feelings in men longing for the grassland fields as somehow genetically pre-programed, and his memories of the uncle were great and said alot to me.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2002, 05:57:11 PM »
Mark,
At one time I was considering looking at architecture as a possible career. After reading Strawn's book I knew I wasn't tempermentally suited to the job and I recommend the book to anyone who expresses an interest in the field. Very eye opening how much non-architecture stuff that goes into the job.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jeremy Glenn. (Guest)

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2002, 06:44:38 PM »
I also read this book a Looong time ago.  Re-read it, then re-re-read it again...  I must have spent days staring at the grading plans shown on page 213 and 279.  8)

It really is a must read.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2002, 08:49:31 PM »
I actually read this book a long time ago, before I even got interested in gca. Picked it up, thinking it was Matt Ward's biography;) & got so turned off by the non-course stuff that I thought "Who would ever want to be a golf course architect?"

Even so, I can't totally accept this as the reason for a disappointing course. All current architects have to work under such conditions & yet plenty of good stuff still gets made. I can see individual holes and/or specific details being compromised, but I think a creative architect can still find ways to make things work. Gil Hanse certainly had his share of problems when building which he was kind enough to share with us and he still created a course that's a lot of fun.

Dumbing down courses for mass market, owner/enviro problems... stop making excuses for these guys, Mark! ;D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Morgan Stephenson

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2002, 09:54:22 AM »
Just alittle trivia about this book. Mike Strantz did the illustrations for the book including the cover. The grading plans and some other images are from Art Hills.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2002, 05:12:48 PM »
Mark,

What does Hills efforts and problems trying to build a swampland course in Florida have to do with Fazio's building a course on a great, rolling, sandy site right next door to the greatest course on earth?   ;)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Richards

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2002, 01:49:06 PM »
Mark:

This book is a very fine read.

Everyone on GCA should read this book for a little
background education! ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

redanman (Guest)

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2002, 02:03:34 PM »
I had the distinct pleasure of meeting John Strawn on the first tee at Pasatiempo some years ago and hten playing the course with him.  John's prose is very light-hearted for teh tone of this book, but it remains one of the most enlightening and informational contempory golf books that I have ever read. Anyone who posts here ought to read it if they haven't already.  I felt that the architect really ought to do his very best in spite of those restrictions and obstacles to defend his or her reputation, that was my take!

I have to echo Mike Cirba's most recent comments 100%.

(There we go bashing Pine Hill and Fazio yet again!)

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Gib_Papazian

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2002, 02:22:13 PM »
John is a superb writer and a great guy to play golf with. His book seems like it sort of acted as a bridge (perhaps a back door) between his writing and a job in the architecture field.

I've tried (as has John Berhardt) to get him to post here, but he is running with the ball at RT Jones II and doesn't have the time I guess. It would be be good to get his thoughts on a continuous basis.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

THuckaby2

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2002, 02:37:39 PM »
Concur with the great Armenian on all accounts here - I too had the pleasure of a round with John Strawn at a lil ole course near Pebble and while that round would have been fun with Satan, John's inclusion just added to the experience - he is a great guy and really enjoys the game.  Now I have another MUST book to add to my list...

Oh, the other fellows that day were good blokes too!   ;)

Good to hear from ya again, Gib.  I hate it when actual work interferes with life.

Cheers!

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2002, 04:05:21 PM »
John has also written a few times in the "Landscape Architecture" journal, and if memory serves me, on topics such as building courses on degraded sites (ie. landfills). i'll post the volume and issue numbers tommorrow if anyone is interested in some further reading.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2002, 04:44:27 PM »
Mark Fine,

I read the book on an airplane years ago, just after my involvement with a course in Florida.  I went to a restaurant that night and noticed a car in the parking lot with the Iron Horse logo.  I asked the owner if he knew who's car it was.  He indicated he did, and I asked him to introduce me.  
It turns out he was the attorney involved in the project and we spent the better half of the night discussing golf courses, regulatory agencies, the process, environmentalists, developers, architects and a host of related subjects.
It was a most interesting evening.

For those that think building a golf course is a simple black and white matter, I wish them a life with a thousand bird ladies.

As a sideline, I understand that Josh Mush was walking his dog near a waterway in Florida, and an alligator attacked and grabbed the dog, and that Josh then leaped on to the surprised alligator, punching him until he released the dog.
The fellow who told me the story knows Josh and claims that to those who know him, the story is no surprise.

If I'd save a baby goose from a snapping turtle, I'd try to save my dogs Keno and Wafer from a gator, but if it was some from this site, I'd think of you, and miss you dearly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2002, 04:53:49 PM »
Thanks for the tip, Mark. I just ordered a used copy for about $3.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tyler Kearns

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2002, 07:45:31 AM »
For those of you who enjoy John Strawn's writing, there is a couple of articles he has written for the "Landscape Architecture" journal. September 1993 features an article entitled, "Desmond Muihead and the Art of the Golf Course", while the October 1999 issue published John's article, "The Laying on of Golf". The latter article deals with designing courses on degraded sites, highlighting the development of Arthur Hills' Bay Harbor, Bob Cupp's Crosswater and The Reserve, designed by Morrish/Weiskopf.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2002, 09:32:30 PM »
I also just ordered a copy.

I love the Dunes, so I can't wait to see it.

Thanks for pointing it out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2002, 10:06:55 AM »
I never met John, but know people that have, (Pete G) and others who all say he is a fine fellow.  Since it has been years since I read that book, I forgot a few things that now come back to me as I read more of these posts.  In the late 80s and early 90s, is when I had become so taken with GCA and course maintenance issues.  That is when I attempted to develop a golf course.  Upon reading John's book, I was so moved as to write him a letter telling him how inspired I was about things he said in the book, particularly the last chapter.  I told him a little about myself and previous background as a police officer in Madison, and what I was trying to do with the golf course development.  He wished me luck on the golf course, but also mentioned that his friend Tom Bates was also a writer and was doing a non-fiction book on the Sterling Hall bombing in Madison (1970), which was one of the seminal events in the anti-war movement.  I was involved in that investigation as a rookie police officer at that time.  Bates paraphrazed a couple of my reports almost verbaitm on certain aspects of those events.   I thought, what a small world...

I know it isn't GCA, but Strawn's friend Bates' book called "Rads" is one very fine read, and I will attest that it is a very accurate account of those events.  Bates' has since passed away.  I had always hoped to get a golf game up with the two of them, but missed the opportunity.

I also wish Strawn would jump into the discussions here more often.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

texsport

Re: A must read - "Driving the Green"
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2002, 09:04:14 AM »
Everyone who appreciated "Driving The Green" will also be interested in Jeff Brauer's ongoing series on Cybergolf concerning the building of the Quarry at Giants Ridge in northern Minnesota.

look at:

http://www.cybergolf.com/architects/
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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