[Tom_Doak]

Greg:

So which would have been harder for you, the shot off closely mown turf, or a short bunker shot?

If I am visualizing where you are talking about on #9, the idea was for the short grass to let the ball get further away from the green and make for a more difficult recovery than a greenside bunker would.

[Mac Plumart]

John K...who pee'd in your cheerios today?

[Greg Tallman]

Greg:

So which would have been harder for you, the shot off closely mown turf, or a short bunker shot?

If I am visualizing where you are talking about on #9, the idea was for the short grass to let the ball get further away from the green and make for a more difficult recovery than a greenside bunker would.

Tom - Perhaps a toss up but maybe easier from the turf on that day as I had hit a nice draw that just went over the brow off the front right and did not trickle all that far off. Shot I had was maybe 15 feet of fairway up a pretty good slope then about 20 feet of green running away hard beyond the hole and thus making the short miss the only option. (On second thought bunker would have been easier as I could have better controlled a "trckle past" shot and set up an uphill birdie putt).

Now had I been another 15 feet right and further below the surface the bunker shot would have been far more preferrable as getting the speed correct with a putter from there would prove tough and the flop off the tight lie a risk given the death on the other side of the green.

I thought the beuty of that area was that you would allow an aggressive second to the par 5 to run out and into trouble rather than collect it with a bunker... of course I THOUGHT there WAS a bunker there when I played my second... counted my lucky stars when I arrived at the green.

And before you ask... made par... enough said.

Has Joe been in contact as yet?

[Carl Nichols]

John K...who pee'd in your cheerios today?

Today?

[Steve Lang]

.. they either lost too many balls in the tall grass or didn't get the fried chicken dinner at the North Platte Airport

p.s. but what does it matter how the course is rated this year versus last?  it apparently is a success and not apparently stressed out as most real estate golf developments are.. or will be..

[John Foley]

It would be interesting to see how they thought of Wildhorse if they played San Hills first or 2nd (or 3rd in this case).

Huge huge fan of Wildhorse, but I can see how others would think less of it if they played it after Sand Hills.

[Dan Smoot]

It is truly sad if raters don't understand Wild Horse or its brilliance.  It is so simple and so enjoyable that you have to come away thinking that it is truly something special.  I first played Wild Horse on a trip where it was followed by Dismal River, Sand Hills and Ballyneal and we all agreed that it was not as great as Sand Hills or Ballyneal but it was just as significant because of what was done.  It is simple farmland with a bit of roll to it where the holes felt natural and the greens were well contoured, interesting and challenging.  No need to plant trees and create lakes just different options and angles is all you need. Sand Hills and Ballyneal are bigger and better courses on better pieces of property but Wild Horse is close behind.

I think you have really hit on it.  It will never compare favorably to the SH, Ballyneal or DR for most people because of the huge property differences, the niche that each property is trying to appeal to and the private vs public access issues.  I love Wild Horse because of what was done in Gothenburg on the scale it was done.  Each time I have played it, I think how many cities could I travel to and play a course with this design quality, playing firm and fast and have this unique and fun experience at this cost and ease of access.  Not many.  The housing setup (setback and on the perimeter) at Gothenburg is a very acceptable compromise for a public access charging inexpensive rates in the middle of nowhere.  My only regret about Wild Horse is that it is 520 miles away in a direction I normally don't travel in.

[Brad Isaacs]

The esthetics of a golf course are very influential on peoples opinion of a course.  This is unfortunate.  The course I would say that people don't get is Desert Forest.  It may not always be overseeded, the club house is old style, but what an incredible course.

Brad I.

[Sean_A]

Why would caring about aesthetics be unfortunate?  The best design is a marriage of the shots and the beauty of the holes/surroundings?  If we love CPC partly because of its setting its only natural that we also whince a bit at a course in a concrete jungle and there are endless degrees between the two.  So far as aesthetics of the design proper, flat land is always going to struggle when compared against more interesting land no matter how well the archie does in sprucing up the course.  For instance, I like New Zealand an awful lot, but it is no Cavendish even if the architecture at New Zealand is at least as good.  At some point we have to admit to ourselves thee is more to golf than hitting shots.

Ciao

[Jerry Kluger]

Dan: I need to see Dismal River again before I say where I believe it should be considered in the group as I understand that have done some really good work on it and it is not as over the top as it was. WH really is a gem for what it is and demonstrates what can be done with some original thought.

[Dan Herrmann]

All I know is that I'm planning a Nebraska trip this year, and I'm really looking forward to playing Wild Horse.  I love its story.

PS - What is meant by Steve Strasheim's, "The Gothenberg Experience"?     I don't think anybody would claim that Pine Valley or Augusta National were in fancy-pants, snob-filled areas....  (And, yes, I've been in Gothenberg, NE)

[John Kavanaugh]

The sequence of play was Wild Horse, Sand Hills (without lodging) and then The Prairie Club with lodging.

One club I did not mention was Bayside which now interestingly sits rated between the two courses at The Prairie Club each being under the top 100 requirement.

It is not difficult to extrapolate that the raters who participated on this trip felt that Wild Horse was equal to both courses at The Prairie Club.

The most logical explanation to me is the Wardian New Jersey Theorem.  Or it could be something more simple, host a rater camp and you are going down.  note:  The courses of Kiawah Island also support the second option.

[John Kavanaugh]

All I know is that I'm planning a Nebraska trip this year, and I'm really looking forward to playing Wild Horse.  I love its story.

PS - What is meant by Steve Strasheim's, "The Gothenberg Experience"?     I don't think anybody would claim that Pine Valley or Augusta National were in fancy-pants, snob-filled areas....  (And, yes, I've been in Gothenberg, NE)

Dan,

Have you booked Awarii Dunes yet on your trip?  It really is changing "The Gothenburg Experience" with their stay and play packages. The 60 Nebraska miles between the two courses makes them next door neighbors.

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