Galloway National: A Fazio Course I ACTUALLY LIKE

[Jerry Kluger]

Joe: I'm trying to remember where that tree on the right side of #16 is relative to your tee shot.  It looks like it just narrows things down and forces you to bring the water into play or can you play over it? 

[Joe Bausch]

Joe: I'm trying to remember where that tree on the right side of #16 is relative to your tee shot.  It looks like it just narrows things down and forces you to bring the water into play or can you play over it? 

That evergreen tree seen to the right in the 2nd photo is way out there:  over 400 yards from the tee.  So it might knock down a wayward second shot.

[George Pazin]

While it seems there is the harsher penalty at Galloway for the slightest tug or push off the tee, it would seem that HC may extract a similar penalty in score.  It just does it in a more friendly (and sneaky) way as, because of the width off the tee it doesnt seem harsh (or explicitly demanding) until you start adding up the score and realize you really were coming into the green from a bad angle despite the hit fairway and gave some shots away.

Interesting paragraph, Jim. You should think about turning it into a thread of its own.

[Matt_Ward]

Joe:

The "executive" tagline seems to crawl under your skin -- wonder why that is ?

Good pics of GN and kudos for that.

More people should now begin to understrand what GN does provide.

[Mark McKeever]

John Lyon is going to have a tough time sleeping tonight after seeing these pics of 18 green.  The only two things he walked off 18 green with was a par and an extra vokey sand wedge.  lol

Mark

[JNC Lyon]

John Lyon is going to have a tough time sleeping tonight after seeing these pics of 18 green.  The only two things he walked off 18 green with was a par and an extra vokey sand wedge.  lol

Mark

Truth.  I really needed another crappy Titleist wedge.  Seriously though, those pics of 18 just make me wish I wasn't stuck in colder weather.

[Kris Shreiner]

Matt,

I believe it was the hilarity of that designation you gave Seaview Bay that has sustained the mirth of Mr. Bausch.

[Sean_A]

There looks to be a lot of interesting greens and plenty happening with earning angles of approach.  Joe, how long is the course as quoted by your yardages?  It seems incredibly long.  The very odd thing from looking at the overhead is the amount of walking between greens and tees.  There are at least three monster walks and several more which look bothersome.  Does the property in some way (which can't be seen on the overhead) dictate that these bothersome walks are necessary?

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

Some old pics to contrast to Joe's from a June day at Galloway.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike S:

Thanks for posting the pics -- really brings to life what GN is about.

Kris:

The reality is that Bay is a sport course -- in my mind, it's an executive layout that simply has not been upgraded to reflect what you see in golf today via technology and the like. Mike Cirba said as much in his comments. If they ever broght the course up to speed I'd be happy to see it in a different light. Clearly, the designation is one tied to my own personal feelings previously expressed.

[Joe Bausch]

There looks to be a lot of interesting greens and plenty happening with earning angles of approach.  Joe, how long is the course as quoted by your yardages?  It seems incredibly long.  The very odd thing from looking at the overhead is the amount of walking between greens and tees.  There are at least three monster walks and several more which look bothersome.  Does the property in some way (which can't be seen on the overhead) dictate that these bothersome walks are necessary?

Ciao

Sean, the scorecard lists the tips at 7104, the next tees at 6638.

The course resides on three parcels of land, divided by two roads. Rt 9, a reasonably busy road, runs just about north-south and holes 11-15 are to the west of it.  Somerstown Lane (not a busy road) sort of runs east-west and holes 3-5 are to the north of it.  It is b/c of these roads that a couple of walks are not quickies.  But is not a serious flaw to me at all.  I love walking and the terrain is very much to my liking.

I do wonder if Fazio had any other routings done, in particular any where the range was located differently.

[JNC Lyon]

Mike S:

Thanks for posting the pics -- really brings to life what GN is about.

Kris:

The reality is that Bay is a sport course -- in my mind, it's an executive layout that simply has not been upgraded to reflect what you see in golf today via technology and the like. Mike Cirba said as much in his comments. If they ever broght the course up to speed I'd be happy to see it in a different light. Clearly, the designation is one tied to my own personal feelings previously expressed.

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole here.

[Kyle Harris]

Mike S:

Thanks for posting the pics -- really brings to life what GN is about.

Kris:

The reality is that Bay is a sport course -- in my mind, it's an executive layout that simply has not been upgraded to reflect what you see in golf today via technology and the like. Mike Cirba said as much in his comments. If they ever broght the course up to speed I'd be happy to see it in a different light. Clearly, the designation is one tied to my own personal feelings previously expressed.

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole here.

I like the description of the Bay as a sport course, actually.

[Jerry Kluger]

I hope that the proposed GCA outing works - the golf would be great and so would the discussion thereafter. 

[Joe Bausch]

The 4th hole at GN reminded me plenty of the closing hole at WW Pine Barrens:

[Rory Connaughton]

Joe

  Can the waste area at Galloway be carried from the tee? 

[mike_malone]

 What is the strategic value of that bunker or does it just limit options?

[mike_malone]

 The World Woods hole looks more strategic. Don't you want to be left bringing the bunker into play so that you don't get caught behind the trees on the right?

[Jerry Kluger]

Mayday: If I remember correctly the fairway for #4 at GN slopes to the right while the hole is a dogleg left - it is just a tough and long par 4 and the only way to challenge it would be to go over the trees but there are very few people who could attempt that.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The aerial photo does a great job of pointing out another huge strategic weakness in the layout.  This is a pretty solid green complex that cannot function strategically because the prime angle of attack is from the waste area.  The greenside right bunker should be a strong hazard that helps determine your play from the tee.  Because of the tall trees through the fairway going within 40 yards of the green, a solid player is handcuffed on the tee and must simply hit a driver, 3 wood, or rescue depending upon the wind to anywhere in faieway not close to any edges.  Eliminate the waste area cut down then the hole will have strategic qualities.  This could be a good risk reward hole by installing an ability to carry the trees for a shorter approach with a better angle of attack.

[Joe Bausch]

What is the strategic value of that bunker or does it just limit options?

Please define for me Mayday the purpose of a bunker.

[mike_malone]

 Different designers have different purposes for bunkers. I like those who want you to "take on " the bunker. Others want them just to be a penalty for a mishit. I don't think that is strategic.

 

[mike_malone]

 I felt when I played GN that most of the time the idea off the tee was just to hit it in the middle of the fairway and avoid the trouble.

[Michael Goldstein]

Cut down the clump of threes 30-50 yards out and the hole will work better.

As is you need to hit 2 iron short left side of the fairway.

We all hit driver down the middle and from there needed to hit a high fade (against the prevailing wind from recollection).

[Joe Bausch]

Different designers have different purposes for bunkers. I like those who want you to "take on " the bunker. Others want them just to be a penalty for a mishit. I don't think that is strategic.
 

#4 is asking the better player, IMO, to take something right along the edge of the bunker.  Is that not "taking on" on the bunker?

The carry across the bunker to the narrowed up area is over 300 yards... shouldn't a player with the skill to hit the ball +300 yards in the air also be able to do so with some precision?!