Another Introduction

[Andy Stamm]

Greetings, I'm a new member as well. I'm very excited to be here; I've been following the discussion group for a while now. I'm currently living in Indiana, Bloomington to be exact, and I'm from Indianapolis.

I'm not much for ranking golf courses (but that went over well), so I thought I make my opening post a ranking of my favorite 10 Shell Wonderful World of Golf matches as I'm a big fan of them, and they get some mention around here.

1. Couples v. Norman, Skibo Castle                some of the windiest golf I've seen makes this one just great to watch
2. Norman v. Faldo, Sunningdale Old             1v2 in the world plus Sunningdale and some great golf is a recipe for success
3. Nicklaus v. Snead, Pebble Beach                probably the best match of the series, and Pebble looks amazing (dry and not manicured)
4. Player v. Thompson, Royal Melborne          great players, great course, great golf
5. Burke v. Leonard, Banff Springs                 great golf, a great course and tough conditions, including a snow storm
6. Littler v. Brown, Gleneagles                       great golf and Gleneagles looks fantastic
7. January v. O'Connor, Royal County Down    great look at county down and O'Connor plays great
8. Nicklaus v. Player, Sunningdale New           great look at Sunningdale New and some great play by Nicklaus
9. Goalby v. Charles, Paraparaumu Beach        great look at a course that seems amazing
10. Nelson v. Littler, Pine Valley                     Nelson and a rare look at Pine Valley

[Peter Pallotta]

Welcome, Andy.

Nice post, good selections.

The game and the golfers -- and the courses -- seemed so much less "precious" in the old days, didn't they?

As if the courses got bloated and worse about the same time the golfers started taking themselves  (and Top 10 finishes) way too seriously.

Enjoy

Peter

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I really enjoy watching the series too Andy.  Did you know the match between Burke and Leonard took most of a week to complete because of the weather?

[Andy Stamm]

PPallotta,

I agree. That's one of the great things about the old series. They went to some fantastic places, but they looked so natural and rough around the edges (in a good way), which we don't see anymore.

And, they went to some pretty bad places too, but they got it around and played a good match regardless.

Kyle,

I did. You can tell in that match more than any other because things keep changing (like the shadows) in crazy ways between holes. It was probably bold to schedule the match at Banff in September. They even let them hit balls between shots (which was a big no-no for Shell) because it was so cold and took so long.

[mike_beene]

Thanks for not ranking the Nicklaus John Miller match at Olympic.The most uncomfortable match I have ever seen because Miller couldn't get the putter back.

[Andy Stamm]

Thanks for not ranking the Nicklaus John Miller match at Olympic.The most uncomfortable match I have ever seen because Miller couldn't get the putter back.

I actually like that one! Olympic looks fantastic, and I've always like that course a lot, and Jack plays so well. But, it's tough to watch Miller, for sure. I'm actually surprised that he agreed to play; he wasn't really playing at all then, and he had to know that was a real possibility.

[Jason Topp]

Nice topic for an introduction.  Two other episodes for me:

Hogan v. Snead at Champions - The only opportunity I have had to see Hogan play a full round on video

The episode at the Old Course.  I cannot remember who played.

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Nice topic for an introduction.  Two other episodes for me:

Hogan v. Snead at Champions - The only opportunity I have had to see Hogan play a full round on video

The episode at the Old Course.  I cannot remember who played.

I should know this as it was broadcast over Christmas. Sevvy v ? (an American I think)

Ahh, this one will bug me for the rest of the day.

Welcome to the DG Andy.

[Jason Topp]

Nice topic for an introduction.  Two other episodes for me:

Hogan v. Snead at Champions - The only opportunity I have had to see Hogan play a full round on video

The episode at the Old Course.  I cannot remember who played.

I should know this as it was broadcast over Christmas. Sevvy v ? (an American I think)

Ahh, this one will bug me for the rest of the day.

Welcome to the DG Andy.

There could have been one involving Seve, but the one I am thinking of is involved very senior players - possibly Sarazen v. Cotton?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Nice topic for an introduction.  Two other episodes for me:

Hogan v. Snead at Champions - The only opportunity I have had to see Hogan play a full round on video

The episode at the Old Course.  I cannot remember who played.

The Hogan Snead match was actually at Houston CC.  The series came to Champions 30 years later for a match between Crenshaw and Kite in which Crenshaw played some really good golf.

[Anthony Gray]

  Andy,

  What match would you want to see and at what couse?

  Anthony

[Andy Stamm]

Anthony,

Great question. I'd like to see a match at Royal Portrush (mainly because I haven't see that course much), preferably the old series. It'd have to have an Irishman, so I guess I'd go with Joe Carr (the amateur who beet Geiberger at Killarney) and a great American links player, maybe Stranahan, and make it a good amateur match. If it were the new series I'd say Harrington v. Woods. I guess there has been some exposure to Portrush with the Senior Open, so maybe Deal or even better Westward Ho! would be my choice. And I'd love to see Peter Thompson is his prime on any links.

I'd love to see a match from a really quirky course like Cruden Bay, so maybe if you got two Seniors to offset the distance,  that'd be a good one. I want to hear the commentary on the approach to 14 and tee ball to 15.

All,

There were 3 matches from St. Andrews, Seve v. Azinger (1995), Sarazen v. Cotton (1962), and Rogers v. Thomas (1968). I've never seen the Rogers v. Thomas match; I'll have to get it sometime. The Sarazen v. Cotton match was bitterly cold, and they didn't play very well. It's really interesting to see them hit like driver, 5 iron into one! It'd be fun to play the Old Course that way.

The Hogan v. Snead match is great, just to see Hogan, which is such a rare treat. And, obviously, he hits the ball just amazingly well. Houston C.C. doesn't do much for me though. That one should be on the list, I just left it off because it was the obvious choice.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Andy - Which courses featured on the series have you played?  Which one that you haven't played would you most like to?

[Andy Stamm]

Sadly, I haven't played any of them. I've walked Pebble a couple of times. I got rained out at Panama C.C. I've been meaning to play Longaberger for a while. I'll play the Old Course soon I'm sure. A couple of other invites slipped through my fingers....

As far as what I'd like to play, It'd be just from my list of courses that I want to play, probably the Old Course and Royal County Down at the top. But I think the series also put some more out of way places on my radar like Paraparaumu Beach, Banff, Cape Breton Highlands, Royal Hague, or Golf Club de Pan just to name a few that I could probably get on.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Thanks for not ranking the Nicklaus John Miller match at Olympic.The most uncomfortable match I have ever seen because Miller couldn't get the putter back.

I actually like that one! Olympic looks fantastic, and I've always like that course a lot, and Jack plays so well. But, it's tough to watch Miller, for sure. I'm actually surprised that he agreed to play; he wasn't really playing at all then, and he had to know that was a real possibility.

Wait - "I actually outplayed Jack tee to green that day" - Miller's self confident/some might say delusional recollection of the day from his book  "I Call the Shots".

Regarding Pebble...I took these low quality screen shots of the show when it was broadcast:

https://picasaweb.google.com/gobeyrz/Pebble#

[Roger Wolfe]

Thanks for not ranking the Nicklaus John Miller match at Olympic.The most uncomfortable match I have ever seen because Miller couldn't get the putter back.

I actually like that one! Olympic looks fantastic, and I've always like that course a lot, and Jack plays so well. But, it's tough to watch Miller, for sure. I'm actually surprised that he agreed to play; he wasn't really playing at all then, and he had to know that was a real possibility.

Are you PKF Kevin Reilly?

Wait - "I actually outplayed Jack tee to green that day" - Miller's self confident/some might say delusional recollection of the day from his book  "I Call the Shots".

Regarding Pebble...I took these low quality screen shots of the show when it was broadcast:

https://picasaweb.google.com/gobeyrz/Pebble#

[Andy Stamm]

Miller didn't outplay Nicklaus in any department that day. On the first tee he talked about how he was better than Nicklaus for a while. The he proceeds to get whipped by Jack. He hit some good shots but was obviously very uncomfortable. Jack as usual played great, controlled golf, with some tremendous shots mixed in.

You all inspired me to watch Azinger v Ballesteros today. I'd forgotten how good that one is. Having Crenshaw do the commentary was an inspired idea. He gives some great insight in the GCA of the Old Course.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Are you PKF Kevin Reilly?

Sorry, I don't understand the question.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Miller didn't outplay Nicklaus in any department that day. On the first tee he talked about how he was better than Nicklaus for a while. The he proceeds to get whipped by Jack. He hit some good shots but was obviously very uncomfortable. Jack as usual played great, controlled golf, with some tremendous shots mixed in.

Tom Huckaby and myself (and probably some other GCAers) were there in person and the only thing Miller did that day that was superior was hit a better drive on #12.  Jack hit the tree on the left and Miller hit a straight bomb.  But that was it.

[Mike Benham]

Tom Huckaby and myself (and probably some other GCAers) were there in person and the only thing Miller did that day that was superior was hit a better drive on #12.  Jack hit the tree on the left and Miller hit a straight bomb.  But that was it.

You are selling Miller short, I think he actually made the birdie putt on 12 ....

[Andy Stamm]

Kevin,

I just noticed those pictures from the 1963 match at Pebble. I really like the way it looks there. I wish they'd go back to that maintenance scheme.

Does anyone know when they changed the green shape at 7? (which is captured nicely in those pictures) I like that boomerang shaped green.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Does anyone know when they changed the green shape at 7? (which is captured nicely in those pictures) I like that boomerang shaped green.

Andy the green and bunkers have been done a few times since 1963, most notably in 1991 by Nicklaus (with help from Paul Spengler) and then later that decade by superintendent Mark Michaud.  There are a couple of pages devoted to the changes to #7 in the Pebble Beach official history  by Neal Hotelling.

[Dick Kirkpatrick]

Just curious, but watching the Honda Classic, do Johnny Miller and JN not shake hands.
They did not on the introduction and again when JN was leaving.