PGA Champion course

[Dean Stokes]

I like to revisit this each time the Honda Classic comes around, mainly just to have a dig at those who consistently bash Florida golf (my emoticons will not work or there would be a smiley face here!), yet once again the players and tv announcers are giving this course praise.

Last year the course played toughest on tour outside the majors, the scores stay fairly high and it gets the respect of the players (which we know is tough).

I have played this course many times and always enjoy it. You have to hit shots and concentrate for 18 holes or you drop shots. I understand the topography not being fabulous but that can hardly be helped as it is in Florida which tends to be flat!

Add in the natural element of the wind off the ocean and let's see who can get it round that back nine!

[Jerry Kluger]

Dean: I have played the course a few times and perhaps I am just not a very good player but I found it extremely difficult and not very enjoyable.  Drainage was an issue when I played it as it was always sopping wet and I felt that the water and the houses made the playing corridors extremely narrow with the usual windy conditions. 

[Dean Stokes]

I don't know about wet at this time of year Jerry.....you can walk through the lakes right now!!!! Narrow corridors and being difficult are what makes a course good to me....I like a challenge....where I have to play well to meet my handicap....otherwise why play?

[Terry Lavin]

Great golf course, great tournament course and a great television course.  Trifecta.

[jeffwarne]

Great golf course, great tournament course and a great television course.  Trifecta.

I prefer Doral

[Dean Stokes]

Great golf course, great tournament course and a great television course.  Trifecta.

I prefer Doral

We are not talking about Doral though Jeff! (wink emoticon).....what do you think about PGA Champ?

[jeffwarne]

Great golf course, great tournament course and a great television course.  Trifecta.

I prefer Doral

We are not talking about Doral though Jeff! (wink emoticon).....what do you think about PGA Champ?

I think PGA national Champions is improved from what it what years ago.
Not my cup of tea, but then I don't enjoy narrow corridors in windy conditions.
Quite a few good holes though.
It does challenge the pros though-18's no cinch par 5

[Dean Stokes]

Since they put the tee back on 18 it has made it a really good par 5.....into the wind generally, tough tee shot to tight landing area, half blind scond shot and a well bunkered green.....good hole (especially when you are beat up from the last 5/6 holes).

[Matt_Ward]

Dean, et al:

Last year the average round at PGA National Resort and Spa was 1.6 strokes above par. Only the U.S. Open at Pebble Beach had a higher average.

The course gets little attention because too much is focused on that overrated layout at Doral and frankly the Bear Trap is an incredible ending stretch where anything can and does happen.

One other note -- the 18th hole at The Champ may be the most demanding and architecturally fun hole for a pure three-shot hole.

Whereas nearly all par-5 holes for the pros are easy pickings -- the finale at The Champ is anything but.

[Dean Stokes]

The one thing to remember also is that #6 and #10 are par 4's for the tournament instead of par 5's for the rest of the year.....they also basically play the same tees on those holes so basically these guys are still .4 under par Matt.

[Matt_Ward]

Dean:

You can call them par-4 or par-5 holes -- it's total strokes that count.

When people get to the final four -- the apples in the throats really start to grow.

If there's serious wind which is predicted for the bulk of the event then watch those
scores rise.

The Champ is one of FL's best courses and it often gets panned by too many people here for no
good reason in my mind.

[Dean Stokes]

Back when I actually knew where the ball was going and could play a bit, I shot 100 there (maybe 101).  It was utterly and completely demoralizing.  I shot 30 on the front nine of the Estates course the next morning.  I will go to my grave not understanding how that's possible.

A) it's this stupid game called golf and B) either 9 at Champ is seriously harder than the front 9 at Estates.....that and your blood/alcohol was probably better matched the next morning after 101 at the Champ!!!!!!!!!

[Jerry Kluger]

I found this link with flyovers of the holes - I just think that with any sort of wind the course is too narrow - water doesn't allow for quality recovery shots.

http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/pganationalchampion/aerial.htm?next=%2Fbluegolf%2Fcourse%2Fcourse%2Fpganationalchampion%2Findex.htm#hole=9

[Sean Leary]

Seems like a great course to test the very best players in the world. They should play on courses like this as much as if the players like it and it shows well on TV, then it is a win win....

[Matt_Ward]

Sean / Jerry:

Nothing makes a pro sweat more than knowing they can get their asses kicked if the shotmaking falters. The Champ does that and once you have been bitten in a tight spot -- like the final four holes -- it plays on your mind forever when you get to the same spot the next day.

Everyone should be watching the par-3 17th this week -- when the pin is back right and you have some serious crosswind there's no harder shot to hit in a pinch than at that hole in my mind.

[Dean Stokes]

I was just looking through some of the scorecards so far and it is noticable how many doubles and triples there are already.......this course is penal however each hole does offer a bailout from the worst danger.....

[Matt_Ward]

Dean:

Beg to differ -- not much bailout on the final four.

[Dean Stokes]

Dean:

Beg to differ -- not much bailout on the final four.

15 - bailout short left chip up the green. 16 - you don't nee any bailout on either shot as the trouble is not really in play for these guys. 17 - front left is the safe play although with 3 iron in hand that is still very difficult. 18 - again bailout is not really required just good solid shots. There is bailout for second shot in left rough. Some really testing shots are the tee shots on 2, 6, 9 and 13 and the second on 11!!!

[Matt_Ward]

Dean:

C'mon -- you make it sound like it's so simple.

Throw in a good breeze and the automatic bailout options are anything but.

Just check out the respective stroke averages of the final four for the last several years.

Few are able to wiggle away with bailout plays.

[Robert Emmons]

PGA National will be playing hard today. Winds blowing 20-25 with gusts to 35.. RHE

[Travis Dewire]

I think one contributing factor is that you can not play out of the water.

How much was added, changed, or touch, and how much is naturally occuring?

What makes this course so difficult? Surely there are days when the wind is down....
- and don't say that its long so that is why it is difficult

[Tyler Kearns]

I took a quick view of the course on Google Earth, and noticed that water comes into play on the final 8 holes, each and every time on the right hand side. Look how difficult the PGA Tour players find the course, and some of the aforementioned water will not come into play for them, but would for the average golfer. It is much more common for average to higher handicaps to miss a green or drive short & right, which is absolute death on the back nine at PGA National.

TK

[mike_beene]

never seen so many signs for missing small dogs...place scares me to death..and the golf is tough too.

[Dean Stokes]

never seen so many signs for missing small dogs...place scares me to death..and the golf is tough too.

how about the new cell phones allowed ruling by the tour? I wondered if any players were 'rang' on the backswing?