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Mark Johnson

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Introduction
« on: March 02, 2011, 05:51:00 PM »
Hi everyone.  I'm Mark.  Been lurking on these boards for a long time and finally joined today.  Wanted to introduce myself and let you know how pumped I am join the group.

As a way of introduction and to let you know my taste in golf courses, below is my list of top 25 courses i've ever played in order (kinda). 



1  Merion
2  Harbourtown
3  Chicago Golf Club
4  Pacific Dunes
5  Erin Hills
6 Hazeltine
7 Spring Hill
8 Arcadia Bluffs
9 Sea Island
10 Princeville Prince
11  Giants Ridge (Quarry)
12 Tobacco Road
13 Bandon Dunes
14  Willingers
15  Butler National
16  Atlantic Golf Club
17 Whistling Straits
18 Merit Club
19  White Bear Lake
20 Purgatory
21 Pine Meadows (IL)
22 Shoal Creek
23  Kauai Lagoons (pre resdesign)
24 Trump National LA
25 Spyglass


Famous highly rated courses i'll played that didnt make the list:  Medinah 3, Bethpage Black and Red, Poipu Bay, Interlachen, Minnikahda, Blackwolf Run, Chambers Bay, Cog Hill Dubsdread
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 06:02:49 PM by Mark Johnson »

Terry Lavin

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 05:55:21 PM »
Mark,

Welcome.

Merit Club ahead of Shoal Creek, Medinah #3 and Spyglass?  Are you related to the developer?

JK.  Hope you enjoy the nut...er treehouse.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Howard Riefs

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 05:58:26 PM »
Welcome, Mark.  

I'm another newbie (and Chicagoan?) who's looking forward to jumping in and joining the conversation about golf course design and architecture.  

- Howard
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 06:01:05 PM »
Mark,

Welcome.

Merit Club ahead of Shoal Creek, Medinah #3 and Spyglass?  Are you related to the developer?

JK.  Hope you enjoy the nut...er treehouse.


wow... i thought the ones i would be based for were Purgatory, Willingers, and Tobacco Road.   (i know those courses are very out of favor here.)

I love Merit Club.  I think it is very strategic course on some great land that requires every club in the bag.  I think it gets bad press because it got a women's open before the course had grown in.  

I have nothing negative to say about Shoal or Spyglass.

Medinah #3 is without a doubt one of my least favorite famous course.    I think you play the same hole several times there.   All the par-3s are basically the same.  The only great hole is the long par 4 (#12 i think).

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 06:01:46 PM »
Welcome, Mark.  

I'm another newbie (and Chicagoan?) who's looking forward to jumping in and joining the conversation about golf course design and architecture.  

- Howard

Actually i live in Minnesota now, but lived in Chicago for 6-7 years after college and still have family there.

JR Potts

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 06:18:57 PM »
I'll just let this one go.

Welcome Mark - it is great to have you here....just great. 

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 06:24:41 PM »
Mark and Howard,
Welcome to the group.

    Link will help you find out some background of us tree housers.
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45175.0/


Bill_McBride

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 06:48:28 PM »
Mark,

Welcome.

Merit Club ahead of Shoal Creek, Medinah #3 and Spyglass?  Are you related to the developer?

JK.  Hope you enjoy the nut...er treehouse.


wow... i thought the ones i would be based for were Purgatory, Willingers, and Tobacco Road.   (i know those courses are very out of favor here.)


Actually, Tobacco Road ("The Road") gets a whole lot of very positive attention here.  It's an out of the box experience, with a couple of routing glitches but a bunch of fun half par holes.

Tim Leahy

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 07:49:59 PM »
Trump National LA over Spyglass?  Bet you like hamburgers better than fillet mignon too!
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Garland Bayley

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 07:57:42 PM »
Trump National LA over Spyglass?  Bet you like hamburgers better than fillet mignon too!

The only thing I can figure is that he attended the LPGA event there and his eyes glazed over.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 08:57:28 PM »
Trump National LA over Spyglass?  Bet you like hamburgers better than fillet mignon too!

The only thing I can figure is that he attended the LPGA event there and his eyes glazed over.



I look at it in tiers, so both are very similar in my mind.   I like both courses for very different reasons.   Trump for its views and creative use of strategic bunkers;  spyglass for its classic feel.

Actually i realized that i left one of my favorites off the list -- Black Sheep.     So i guess now Trump and Spyglass are 25A and 25B.

Matthew Sander

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 09:04:06 PM »
Mark,

Welcome! Do you ever get to Keller in St. Paul? We lived in the Twin Cities right after college and I fell in love with that place...

Mark Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Introduction
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2011, 09:08:23 PM »
Mark,

Welcome! Do you ever get to Keller in St. Paul? We lived in the Twin Cities right after college and I fell in love with that place...


No.  I live in edina so that is a bit of a bit of a hike, but i have heard good things.  I think they are hosting the mga mid am itwo years so i will likely see it then

Ron Csigo

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2011, 09:19:36 PM »
Mark,

Welcome!  I enjoyed looking over your list.  There are some rankings there that are intriguing and quite different from how others might rank the courses you've played.  I have one question for now.   Tell us why you prefer Harbour Town over Pac Dunes?  Thanks!
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

JR Potts

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2011, 09:32:54 PM »
Hazeltine is #6 and Harbourtown is #2...that's really all I needed to read.


Garland Bayley

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2011, 09:34:08 PM »
Trump National LA over Spyglass?  Bet you like hamburgers better than fillet mignon too!

The only thing I can figure is that he attended the LPGA event there and his eyes glazed over.



I look at it in tiers, so both are very similar in my mind.   I like both courses for very different reasons.   Trump for its views and creative use of strategic bunkers;  spyglass for its classic feel.

Actually i realized that i left one of my favorites off the list -- Black Sheep.     So i guess now Trump and Spyglass are 25A and 25B.

I can't imagine Trump having better views or strategy than Chambers Bay. I can't imagine it having better holes. Count me as an adversary. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2011, 09:40:03 PM »
Mark,

Welcome!  I enjoyed looking over your list.  There are some rankings there that are intriguing and quite different from how others might rank the courses you've played.  I have one question for now.   Tell us why you prefer Harbour Town over Pac Dunes?  Thanks!

Both courses are great.  I like harbourtown because of how unique it is.  Small greens, course requiring both length precision and decision making (which is why merion is #1).  Pac dunes is great, but there are other somewhat similar courses.  Not sure anything is close to h-town.

Ryan Admussen

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2011, 10:13:27 PM »
Mark,

Welcome!  I enjoyed looking over your list.  There are some rankings there that are intriguing and quite different from how others might rank the courses you've played.  I have one question for now.   Tell us why you prefer Harbour Town over Pac Dunes?  Thanks!

Both courses are great.  I like harbourtown because of how unique it is.  Small greens, course requiring both length precision and decision making (which is why merion is #1).  Pac dunes is great, but there are other somewhat similar courses.  Not sure anything is close to h-town.

Welcome to the site Mark!

I'm curious which courses you found similar to Pacific Dunes?

Mark Chaplin

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2011, 03:00:24 AM »
Welcome Mark now is the time to dust down you passport and see some overseas gems!
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 04:42:16 AM by Mark Chaplin »
Cave Nil Vino

Jason Topp

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2011, 05:03:44 AM »
Mark:

Welcome from another Minnesotan.  Where do you play?

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2011, 08:25:11 AM »
Welcome Mark now is the time to dust down you passport and see some overseas gems!

I've actually played overseas a bit, but noolace memorable.  I have family in wales but they don't llay much and would rather play neighborhood places than any more traditional ones.   Would loe to play carnoustie once in my life.

Dan Kelly

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2011, 08:45:28 AM »
From one Golden Gopher to another:

Welcome. We're developing a pretty good crowd of Minnesota GCAers.

I, personally, am opposed to golf-course rankings, but do admire your courage in putting Hazeltine so high. As someone said up above, that's like an admission of criminality to some people here.

Not to mention several other ball-busters on your list.

Play Keller sometime. It's a lot of fun, it has a ton of history (to be elucidated, verbally and photographically, in the book Rick Shefchik is writing)  -- and everyone should have an opinion on the tree-blocked par-3 4th.

Dan

P.S. Just looked a little closer at your list. As I said, I don't believe in ranking golf courses -- but I do believe in rating them. And there's no way in hell (IMO) that Willinger's belongs anywhere on your list ... much less above White Bear (which I haven't played, but have walked)! Willinger's??? I'd love to hear why you like Willinger's so much.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 09:02:23 AM by Dan Kelly »
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Mark Johnson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2011, 02:17:15 PM »


P.S. Just looked a little closer at your list. As I said, I don't believe in ranking golf courses -- but I do believe in rating them. And there's no way in hell (IMO) that Willinger's belongs anywhere on your list ... much less above White Bear (which I haven't played, but have walked)! Willinger's??? I'd love to hear why you like Willinger's so much.

my defense of Willingers.  One of all my all-time favorite public courses.   In terms of public courses under $100 i don't think anything else is even close.  The course is incredible strategic, requires every club in the bag and is built around the prevailing wind.  Because of this it is a 6800 yard course that plays like a 7300 yard one.   Hole by hole here is why i love it.


1-  Nice Opening hole,   slightly uphill dogleg right;  you need to draw your tee shot over water if you want a wedge to the green
2-  Easiest hole on the course.   Short par 5, reachable in 2 by most good plays
3-  One of the hardest 140 yard par 3 you will ever see.   Downhill tee shot to a very narrow green, usually with a major crosswind.   I've probably made more doubles here than any other hole on the course.
4-  Uphil split fairway hole to a very steep green.
5-  Driveable par four that usually plays straight downwind.   if you lay up a very narrow fairway
6-  Downhill double dogleg par 5 surrounded by water.   If you hit driver you need to carry 295 to set up a makable second shot.  I've hit everything from Driver to 4-iron off this tee
7-  Nasty 190 yard uphill par 3 over a marsh that usually plays dead into a strong wind.   I've hit good 3 woods that didnt get there here
8-  My favorite hole.  Shortish dogleg par 4 with a steeply sloped fairway to the right.   smart players hit hybrid off the tee to get a more level approach shot
9- Uphill downleg par 4.   Tee shot a little more forgiving than 8, by a tricky green with alot of slope.

10-  Fairly standard uphill 400 yard par 4
11- The most notorious hole on the course and the reason lots of people dont like the course.  350 yard par 4 downhill with a ravine in the middle of the hole.   This is usually 7-iron, wedge for me.   Suckers can take out driver to try to set up an uphill wedge
12- Very Demanding par 4.  Downhill tee shot, uphill approach to very narrow fairway, guard by a huge elm.   The hardest hole for most players
13- Tons of options here.   Drivable Dogleg par4 from an elevated tee.   If you Carry the dogleg and dont hit too far into a lake, you have an easy three, otherwise you are looking at 6 or 7
14- nice 180 yard par 3 to very narrow green with some nasty grass bunkers on right and water on left
15- Reachable Par 5 with water coming in play on both shots.   Easiest hole on back by far.
16-  Very challenging uphill par 4 with lots of fairway bunkers to avoid.   Very shallow green that is hard to hold
17- Downhill postage stamp type hole.  Only par 3 which is somewhat sheltered from wind
18- Nice Risk/Reward par 5; Requires accurate drive and solid second second with OB, water and sand in play

Thats why i love it.  Tons of variety, a thinking man's course with great use of wind.   good players dont hit driver on at least half of the par 4 and at least one par 5.

Dan Kelly

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2011, 02:37:31 PM »
Mark -- Thanks for a spirited defense! Dan
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Introduction
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2011, 03:03:00 PM »
Mark,

Welcome.  I live near you; I'm in SW Minneapolis.

I'm struggling with Willinger's lofty position also.

I used to play there quite a bit, but I got tired of getting beat-up by the 140+ slope (I'm a 17) , losing lots of balls, the overwatering, and questionable hole designs on the back 9.  Once I started spending time with this site I began to rework the back 9 in my head!

Do you have any love for the courses in the Brainerd area?