Plans of Canada Golf Courses

[Phil_the_Author]

I'm posting this for a good friend who has a collection of Canada golf course drawings that he would like to sell. If there is any intereste please let me know...

"Since you are a member of the Golf Atlas community, I was wondering if you know anybody who collect golf plans. I have about 30 golf plans of golf courses from the province of Quebec, Canada. Plans were made in the 80's & 90's and most of them were made by architect Howard Watson and John Watson. I also have a blue print of an original Stanley Thompson (Seigniory Club, Lucerne-in-Quebec, Château Montebello) dated 1929. A very interesting piece for the serious collector..."

[Ian Andrew]

Philip,

I'll buy the Thompson drawing to donate it to the RCGA collection or the University of Guelph archives (they have an extensive Thompson collection).
Of note: I already have the irrigation drawings or earth moving plans (can't remember which) for the project. That was found a few years back.

Please contact me off site with the details.

I have much less interest in the Watson collection - but I would consider a purchase to donate it to the RCGA.
They have to understand it has limited value.

I'm posting this just in case anyone else has something else like this. I have purchased a few things now and donated everything I have ever bought or found. Researchers and architects need this information and having it sit in a private collection makes our work very hard to do.

[Tom MacWood]

Ian
That is very nice gesture, and I agree with you. IMO the most positive result of the USGA archive initiative are the wealth plans accessible via the Internet. At present the majority of those plans/drawings are Flynn's but still its a wealth of good info. Are there any plans to create a similar data base at RCGA, or the University for that matter?

[Ian Andrew]

Tom,

The university of Guelph collection has become quite something.

The initial donation came as a result of The Stanley Thompson Society placing all their own collection in the University archives. I’m fairly certain they pay for the collection to be housed there, and the drawings remain their property, but it’s a huge benefit for people like me since it provides easy access. The note book for Sunningdale (Ontario) is a must see for any fan of Thompson.

A second small donation was made a few years back that included the Irrigation Drawings for Highlands Links and a few other select items all of great interest. Not sure who I this case. Odds and ends have been give by clubs too.

The society has continued to add to the collection again recently with a couple of interesting small purchases of plans. They continue to pursue a few items held in private hands that are known to all of us.

But the game changer was a recent donation which I reviewed for the University while they had the collection assessed. It was made by an Engineer who inherited a collection. I went to meet with the University to place everything in historical context and at times I was astounded. There are drawings on sketch, plans on vellum and even the ongoing redesign of a project.

I have been back and reviewed the entire collection with Robert Thompson. There is a routing plan for Banff in there with no bunkers, renovation plans for places like Mississagua and even the plan for Harry Oaks private course which is the source of the greatest stories surrounding Thompson’s legacy. It helped solve a number of questions, surprised my by proving one course was not his design and provided a surprising bit of information on a couple of clubs.

This collection is still being brought into the system, but should be available to the public soon. They were generous enough to let me photograph parts because of the information it represented. I’ve meant to post some of this.

In their archives they have everything I have ever seen and collected digitally. I have shared everything I find including the famous picture of the Banff model – which I have posted on GCA. All the photos I found of the original Jasper (before he returned two years later to redo the bunkers) etc. etc.

The collection would take a full day to review now.

[Robert Thompson]

Tom: Ian is right. We spent a few hours with the recent Thompson plans at Guelph just before Christmas -- staggering what came forward and it only contained plans from about four years.
I doubt the RCGA has the cash at the moment to do anything similar to the USGA...

Ian
That is very nice gesture, and I agree with you. IMO the most positive result of the USGA archive initiative are the wealth plans accessible via the Internet. At present the majority of those plans/drawings are Flynn's but still its a wealth of good info. Are there any plans to create a similar data base at RCGA, or the University for that matter?

[Ian Andrew]

I doubt the RCGA has the cash at the moment to do anything similar to the USGA...

Tom,

I tried to broker a deal to get the archives at the RCGA scanned by the USGA. The intent was for the RCGA to keep the originals, but for the USGA to digitally publish the entire collection as part of the USGA archives on line. The figure was about $60,000. (by my recollection) but it never went anywhere after the initial interest. There is some reluctance from the RCGA since the periodical collection would need to be taken apart and rebound after, which means a subtle alteration to the originals.

[Yannick Pilon]

Philip,

I would also be interested in acquiring these plans, but not at any costs.  I would also keep a copy for myself and donate them to the RCGA as well.  Perhaps Ian and myself could join forces (or budget!) on this.  Obviously, the Thompson plans might have more appeal for potential buyers, but Watson plans might be interesting as well.

Most courses in Quebec have no or very small records of their own history, and a lot of them were designed by Thompson and the Watsons.  I am sure some of the Clubs could also be interested in buying back some of those plans.  I know I would sure be interested in at least seeing them if I don't have the necessary resources to acquire them.  I am currently working on a Master Plan for a course designed by Howard Watson in 1955 and would love to have any information I can find on that course as the Club does not have anything in their records. 

I find Howard Watson was great at creating routings that made the most of good pieces of land, but that he was not as good at creating bunkering that was original and distinctive.  Most of what I have seen so far from him is rather repetitive in shape and placement.  I would love to confirm if his courses were planned this way, or simply built that way by his crews....

Is there a way that you could let me know what does your friend have in detail (which courses?), and how much he would like to sell it for?  I'll be out of touch for the next couple of days , e-mail wise, but would love to exchange on the idea, if possible.  I beleive my e-mail is on the side-bar, here....

Cheers

YP

[Jordan Caron]

Philip

Anything from Levis GC?  I played the 1998 Canadian JR there and it was there 75th Anniversary.  I might be interested as a friend won the event.