THM! Alps -#4 Old Macdonald 16th (Advances) vs #13 Gleneagles 3rd

[Richard Choi]

You have till EOD (PST) Wed to cast your votes. Just state your preference on this thread. The voting is open to all. I highly recommend those who have played the holes to try to influence the voters as much as possible. I will tally the results on Thu and schedule the next round.

Seed #4

Old Macdonald 16th

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 455 yards

Why: From Ran - One of the fascinating aspects of National Golf Links of America is how Macdonald interpreted certain features from classic United Kingdom holes and incorporated them into his holes in the United States. For instance, with the Leven, he turned one of the landforms perpendicular to how it was at Leven Links in Scotland and walled off the seventeenth green at National Golf Links of America. In regards to the Alps, the one at Prestwick became famous in part because of its uncompromising nature. Not only does the golfer have to carry a tall hill with his approach shot but there is a hidden deep bunker that walls off the front of the green as well. Doak and Urbina’s interpretation of the this superb hole is more strategic and in keeping with the one at National Golf Links in that the golfer talented enough to hit a drive long down the right can often times get a good look at the day’s hole location.





Seed #13

Gleneagles 3rd  

Tale of the tape: Par 4, 374 yards

Why: From the club website – Tee Shot: There is a plan of the pin placement on the tee. A drive to the right side of the fairway will give the best stance for the blind approach shot.  Approach: If the pin is on the front level, an approach shot carrying just over the ridge will run forward and finish near the hole. If the pin is on the back level, at least two or three clubs more will be required.  Green: The green has two tiers and a very steep slope between the tiers. Leaving a long putt could prove to be hazardous.

 
There is a fantastic flyover of the hole here: http://www.gleneagles.com/golf/golf-courses/king's-course-/virtual-course-guide/hole-3

[Garland Bayley]

Since Doak doesn't get much support on this website, I guess I'll have to throw him a bone and vote for Old MacDonald. After all, I had the first nomination in with it as one of my nominees.

[Richard Choi]

I'd figured we would get the most action on Old Mac #16 as many on this site has played (it is one of my very favorite holes ever). Why so quiet?

[Morgan Clawson]

Richard,

Great job with the aerials, flyovers and photos!  Very clever post - kudos to you!

I have not played either course, but I vote for Old Mac.

I think Old Mac #16  is a more intriguing because you can see the green if you hit it down the right side. I love the 2nd photo with  the massive bunker peaking out behind the hill. I'm guessing that most golfers will see this view or the full-on view of the alps hill.

I'm looking foreard to hearing what the Kings Putter guys have to say about this hole.

[Bill_McBride]

Old Mac for me.

[Sean_A]

No, I am not liking how far Old Mac strays from the Alps model as it looks like the proper drive offers a view of the green.  This isn't necessarily bad, but there looks to be enough space out there to make the play up the right the obvious one.  Gleneagles doesn't impress me much, but it is more in keeping with what an Alps is.  Gleneagles takes this match.

Ciao

[Norbert P]

 Disclosure - I have not played or walked either but have played Prestwick's.

  I admire the simple elegance of Gleneagle's hole but I think John Low would move the fairway bunker farther out from the tee and to the right side.   The best approach angle has no obstacle from the tee.  

  Ol' Mac has more strategy to it but I don't understand the railroad sleeper bunker style amidst all the natural style bunkers.
  Especially so close to the other approach bunker.  I like asymmetry and the tee shot left, I would assume, would give more of the Prestwick Alps effect but perhaps the bunker theme could have been more visually consistent throughout the hole.

  For the strategy,  I vote for the one that's in New Albion*.

  But, if we are voting for the better variation of the Alps concept, though shorter,  Gleneagles. Eventhough I doubt very much that they were attempting a recreation.  I'd also like to see more of the contours of the greens and if the origianl green at Glen's was larger and shaped differently.

  From what I remember of Prestwick's Alps hole, the strategy is not in the angles but in the par / bogey expectation and which clubs to use.   I was a bogey hunter.

  





*What Captain Cook named the area.

[Cristian]

Both may not be 100% Alps by definition, but both are great holes; I played these both but my vote goes to Old Mac, for the alternative route going left over the dune and catching the downslope to the green, and for the fronting bunker. My favourite hole at BDGR.

[Mark McKeever]

Old Mac gets my vote.

Mark

[Pete_Pittock]

Played both. Old Macdonald is the better Alps with bunkering and a challenging green. Alas at 455 it is a 3-shotter for me and I play around the hill, whereas Gleneagles Kings #3 (my nomintaion) is more in my playing range as an Alps.

Vote: Old Macdonald

[hick]

I had the chance to play Old Mac last week, And i was to far left to see the green on my second shot. I manged to lay up right in front of the Alps and was on the green from there. Only one in our foursome had a look at the green. The wind blowing at us made the tee shot even that more difficult. Old mac for me.

Pete, Got tied up at Deschutes Brewery, and the golf section at powells books last sunday. Hope to get back to Portland and Bandon in the fall.

[Matt MacIver]

I've played Kings, not OM, and Prestwick as well. 

We had a 10 minute wait on the tee at Kings, and despite my caddy telling me over and over where I was to aim my tee ball I couldn't fathom what he was talking about so I just sorta hit it.  The massive width accomodated my slice nicely.  I had a little better feeling on the second shot and lobbed it over the hill.  I loved the feeling of scaling the hill not knowing what was on the other side, or where my ball might be.  I was somewhat dissappointed by the blandish green (at least it has bumpers!) but it probably didn't need to be too hard given the first two shots. 

There is absolutely no flexibility at Kings - your second shot has to reach at least 100 ft in the air to make the climb.  No option, which probably works for 90% of all golfers but is that enough.  Plus...the green. 

Therefore, I vote: Kings.  But I'm guessing (hoping?) that OM will be better; it definitely couldn't be any more memorable. 

PS: I give the slightest of edge to Kings vs. Prestwick, but ask me tomorrow....

[Richard Choi]

A friendly reminder that the voting window closes end of day today (Pacific time).

Old Macdonal is cruising with an 8 to 3 lead.

[Mike Hendren]

Is that a greenside bunker I  spy from the tee at Old Macdonald?

Gleneagles.

[Matthew Petersen]

Old Mac

[Kevin Pallier]

I fail to understand how people vote for holes they haven't seen ?

OM for me.

[Mark Johnson]

Old mac

[Phil McDade]

Old Mac, sight unseen.

[Richard Choi]

12 to 4 ho hum win for Old Mac! Thing may look even better after the KP event in two weeks, but can it last that long?