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David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« on: March 02, 2011, 07:44:49 PM »
By way of introduction, I’m 45 with 3 kids, 10, 6, and 4.  If there’s one legacy I wish to give my children, it’s the gift of golf, much as my father left to me. I reckon the time has come to get them on the course more, so this year we are considering joining a club for the first time. Here in Saratoga Springs, NY, there are two clubs that offer both golf and a pool: Saratoga Golf and Polo and McGregor Links.  Saratoga Golf and Polo is a nine-hole course where I’ve been told there’s a 2-year wait to get on on the weekend.  McGregor Links: as I have since learned, a course at least on the radar of the golf architecture cognescenti.

I, however, am not numbered amongst that esteemed body, so when I read on McGregor’s site that it was a Devereux Emmet course, my immediate response was “Cool!  Who’s he?”

Google was helpful, and in following the links there, I started to pick up bits and pieces, but most importantly, that there was a site called golfclubatlas that had lots of references to Emmet, and not just that, but lots of really detailed, thoughtful, and knowledgeable references.

The other thing I learned was that there was a whole world of golf architecture discourse, a fascinating world, and one that I knew absolutely nothing about.  So off to the library, where I found Geoff Shackleford’s  book “Grounds for Golf”.  Wow, what an eye-opener.  He presented such a cogent framework for understanding a golf course, and the illustrations by Gil Hanse so clearly visualized the concepts, I felt a whole new world opening up.

Little did I know in reading that that Geoff and Gil are very prominent in the Golf Architecture world, and on this site, but that just shows how naďve I am.

Fast forward to now, and I have a question/proposal, that in likelihood has been answered a thousand times on the site, but I’m asking it anyway.

With all the talk about this best hole, that best course, etc., I started wonder is there a definitive list of qualities that when taken together, both describe a golf hole’s value, and when taken across a course, describe the course’s quality?  Let me explain.

Ian Andrew, in his blog, is going through an exercise to identify the current 18 hole templates that would make up a NGLA course, if done today, post MacDonald. His first choice is the Riviera 10th.   He describes the strategic elements of the hole, which I would characterize in terms of qualities as “Temptation”, “Driveable Green” (hole appears driveable), “Visible Deception” (the bunkers frame the unsafe line to the hole), “Alternate Routes” (you can lay up to the left), and “Green Difficult to Hold”,  and “Approach Angles” (as we saw in the Northern Trust). 

One way to look at this whole, and as I read Ian’s analysis, what he’s doing with all of these great hole templates, is that this hole delivers a number of qualities that make a golf hole interesting.  If you took away the quality of “Green Difficult to Hold”, by making the green wider, reducing the tilt, or removing the mounding on the safe front left location, the hole wouldn’t be as interesting.

As many positive qualities as the 10th at Riviera has, there are plenty of other qualities that go into great golf holes that aren’t present. For example, the hole doesn’t really support “Grip and Rip”, which when all is said in done, is something fun to do on the course.  There “High Penalty/Reward” quotient isn’t as strong, as say the forced carry on Augusta 15th’s approach.  The “Shot Shaping” opportunity on the long drive isn’t the same as the 2 opportunities to shape shots on, as Ian calls it, “Azalea” (Augusta’s 13th).

It seems there is a list of all the qualities that a hole could possess.  Some are strategic, some technical challenges or opportunities, some aesthetic, some repeat playability, but the list is distinct qualities is finite, though the combinations and degree are infinite.  While each hole exhibits  each quality on less or greater measure, what makes a course interesting is in how the 18 opportunities to express the qualities that make golf interesting are combined, sequenced, and balanced.  As good as Riviera 10th is, 18, 3, or even 2 versions of that combination of qualities would be too much in a course. 

Good courses are often described as having “good variety”, or that you use “every club in your bag”. Good courses, I suspect, also provide the variety of qualities in their holes.  Many, if not most important quality that might be found in a hole is present somewhere, from “Dramatic View”, “Deceptive Distance”, and “Rewards Precision”, to “Heroic Carry”, “Blind Shot”, “Whimsy”, “Alone in Nature”, and “Clubhouse Gallery”.

My question/proposal is this: is this a reasonable way to think about golf course architecture, and if so, what are the qualities that characterize a golf hole, good and bad?

Finally, I am in awe of the great work and thought that you all put into this game, and if I am treading on well worn ground, ask that you move onto the next post. 
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 08:02:55 PM »
Hey David...

Welcome!

I like your post.  But let's turn it around to get the ball rolling. 

What is your favorite hole?  Why did you like it?  What is a hole you don't like?  What don't you like about it?

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2011, 08:12:11 PM »
The next really "great" golf hole will have a new name.

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2011, 08:20:19 PM »
Mac,

Thanks for the warm welcome.  

My favorite hole is the 10th at Saratoga Spa GC.  It's a short straight par 4 through a corridor of pines, that in the afternoon light evokes the sensation of being in a cathedral, of golf.  The course is a 1961 design, I think, by William Mitchell.  The course is grand, wide, straight forward, and fun.  It is on no top 100 list.  

If I have a least favorite, I don't want to share.  I believe that all holes, for someone, at sometime, are imbued with meaning.  

Yeah, I have rose glasses, but I'm good with that.  :-)

The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2011, 08:41:51 PM »
David...that hole sounds awesome!

Tom Paul told me, maybe a year and a half ago, to keep track of all the "feelings" I have on a golf course and try to figure out why certain courses/holes make me feel certain ways.  He believed that once you can iron out why courses/holes make you feel certain ways then you are on the way to discovering what you like in the game.

Sounds like you are doing that in spades.  I also really liked how you analzyed 10 at Riviera.  Sounds like you don't need anyone on here to tell you anything about great golf holes.  Maybe you need to shine some of your light on us.

Thanks...great stuff!!


Don...care to expound on your comment?  You've piqued my interest.
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2011, 09:02:25 PM »
One quality I have found in great holes is the need to hit precise shots. Is that not true with the 10th at Saratoga Spa?

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 09:37:17 PM »
Joel,

That's a great question.  I would not say that Saratoga Spa 10th exhibits the quality of "rewards precise shots".  Precise shots are always rewarded, in sense, but that is not determinitive factor on that hole.  The qualities of that hole are "awe", "grip and rip", "challenging putt".

Another way I look at is this.  If you have invested in developing the skill to hit precise shots, that is a quality you will value in a hole that rewards it.  But, if that's not a skill you have, that quality has less value, maybe even negative value. 

This question brings to focus the distinction between the qualities of a hole and the values of the player.  The sign at Bethpage Black tries to say that: if you aren't really good, consider the othet courses, because the qualities you will find here are best appreciated by highly skilled players.

Dave

The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 09:53:41 PM »
This question brings to focus the distinction between the qualities of a hole and the values of the player.

David...

I truly believe you are correct.  And this is the Nuzzo 3 classes of golfer theory rearing its head again.  Courses/holes will appeal to different people for distinct reasons. 

Seminole appeals to the challenge centric golfer.  Ben Hogan says a player who can play Seminole can play anywhere.  Yeah, because it is ball bustingly difficult to hold those greens and avoid those bunkers.  But the mid to high handicapper will get raked over the coals there and, usually, that isn't too much fun. 

Ballyneal has the adventure/fun aspect with those great greens and very natural look and routing. 

And something like a Cascata is simply beautiful.  Is it a test of golf?  Not really.  Low handicappers might not like that aspect of it.  It is an adventure?  Not really.  It really isn't walkable, so you are in a cart.  But man oh man oh man, it is beautiful and that appeals to a certain demographic of golfer.

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 10:18:17 PM »
Welcome,
 There's no rule of thumb, no formulas to follow. There are however, core principals that need be present, not necessarily on a hole by hole basis but on the whole.

The Old Course in St. Andrews is where I suspect one would get the complete education on what makes holes, and the whole, great.
One word missing from your post was Freedom. A great courses, imo, mostly allows you the freedom to choose the shot, allowing for all types of ball flights, but still demands you to be perfect in executing what you ultimately chose.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brian Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Qualities of a Great Golf Hole
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 10:48:52 PM »
David - welcome!

My comment is somewhat close to Adam's - I think a great hole is one that offers multiple angles of attack and plays a little differently each time you play it given wind, turf conditions, tee placement, pin position, and the game you've brought to the course that day.  Something that challenges the good player without completely overwhelming a 15 handicapper.  "Half-par" holes are often great ones - a short par 4 or 5 with a risk-reward and birdie opportunity, offset by the stern par 3 or 4 that provides the opposite.  Anything that gives variety to the game and keeps you thinking.

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