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Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« on: February 21, 2011, 12:51:34 PM »
I know it's probably not, but it did strike me that way when my wife and I played it last week.  It is a FL residential course that's been opened to public play to try to bring in a little extra money. 

Like many residential courses, the routing has to accommodate the housing, but it would be nice if the course had some flow. On this one there were outrageous distances between one hole and the next.  There were trips of 500 yards, 550 yards, 650 yards and 760 yards between holes on the course.  Now, it was a cart course, but my wife insists on walking the whole course, and the parts in between, and these and other inter-hole walks made the course more like a 27 hole walk.  Even on a cart it was egregious.

One other annoying (and sometimes dangerous) feature of the course, was that there were 5 instances where you had to walk/drive back from the green toward the fairway to reach the exit to the next hole.  There were also four holes where you entered the hole and had to walk/drive back to the tees.

I'd challenge anyone to find the routing on the attached aerial.





The most egregious hole design involved a 760 yard trip to get to the tee.  In the picture below, you enter from the top left.  At the corner of the path there is a warning sign to beware of golfers teeing off.  Of course you can't see the tee around the corner through the bush and trees, with the mens tees some 200 yards back from the corner.  And, of course, waiting at the corner places you about 180 to 220 yards from the tee in the prime sliced landing area. Most people playing up to the green would take their cart up there, only to find that they need to go back towards the tee and into the driving zone to get around the lake to get to the green and the next tee.  When we were there, there were four groups scattered around this hole.  An absolutely silly piece of design work.





As a last point on what were they thinking, there was a 200 yard par 3 with a fence and trees down the right side and a constructed ridge and mounds that were maybe 12 to 15 feet high down the left side of the hole.  The tees were lined up down the corridor, except for the back tee.  That one they had displaced about 20 yards left so that it was directly in line with the ridge of mounds.  It was set down in the mounds.  The hole was totally blind from there.  No view of any part of the green or the flag.  No aiming pole.  Just silly.

 

Mike Cirba

Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 12:59:00 PM »
Oh Bryan...why do you bring out my evil side with this provocative question?  ;)

"The Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge" in Marshall's Creek, PA makes your course look like an intimate, classy, well-conceived little routing.

It literally traverses 12 miles from the first tee to the 18th green, and if you think the architect found some good holes in that safari you'd be mistaken.

Absolutely the worst golf course on the planet in terms of routing and architecture.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 01:12:37 PM »
Mike,

I harboured no illusions that there wasn't a worse routing out there with more outrageous distances between holes.  I was just venting.  I assume that following the routing in the Poconos was fairly straightforward and that there were fairly (totally) isolated playing corridors.


Mike Cirba

Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 01:22:26 PM »
Bryan,

I'm not sure...I almost got lost and never finished.  ;)

The routing is just amazing...I would almost send people there to see it because it defies description but i'd be concerned I might contribute to the shrinking number of golfers in recent years.

And I know you were venting, that's ok.  ;D

I moved last November and now the Pocono course is only about 1/2 hour from my house, so I have that going for me.  ;)


***EDIT***

Bryan...this is the closest resolution I can use on Google Earth and still get all 18 holes into the frame, and I'm honestly not sure I've gotten all of them.   You can see some up in the top middle, and others stretched miles away down in the lower left.   





« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 01:37:19 PM by MCirba »

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 01:57:00 PM »
Ah Mike: Spring is upon us as we get to banter that famous phrase "the worst goldf course ever designed and actually built is Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge".  I can almost see the tulips and daffodils peaking thru the melting snow !

Rory Connaughton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 02:02:25 PM »
Mike I looked at that aerial and Brando came to mind:

"The horror. The Horror." :-)

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 02:13:32 PM »
Anyone want to comment on the Greg Norman course at PGA West in Palm Springs? 
I understand that maybe it has been revised and is a bit better, and at least they didn't blow it up like they did the Norman course at Miribel in Scottsdale.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 02:33:10 PM »
Challenge accepted, Bryan!

I didn't look up the course on the internet and I haven't played it. I actually still don't know the name. Did I get close?

I'm happy to say I've never played a course routed this poorly.



Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 03:48:11 PM »
Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.


JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 06:15:14 PM »
That's funny...the fact that #7 and #8 are correct given their position on Alex's guess is alarming.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 06:22:46 PM »
Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 06:31:03 PM »
Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Well the only other option I could find is even worse... using you numbers as the second number referencing the layout I suspect...

1=10; 2=11; 3=9; 4=1; 5-8=5-8; 9=12; 10=13; 11=14; 12=15; 13=16; 14=17; 15=18; 16=1; 17=2 & 18=3

Aqua Range with putting green near the 16th tee.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 06:40:39 PM »
Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Well the only other option I could find is even worse... using you numbers as the second number referencing the layout I suspect...

1=10; 2=11; 3=9; 4=1; 5-8=5-8; 9=12; 10=13; 11=14; 12=15; 13=16; 14=17; 15=18; 16=1; 17=2 & 18=3

Aqua Range with putting green near the 16th tee.

THat cannot be right given your previous  comment... wow

10-14=1-5; 1=6; 7-8=7-8... but wait 9 must be 9???????? 10-13=15-18; 14-16=4-6; 17-18=2-3????????? Come on... ahs to be it.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2011, 07:13:32 PM »
this is not a golf course but just a group of holes.

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2011, 07:18:17 PM »
I'm enjoying this game. How about this? I think I have 16 of the 18 correct, but really who knows? 6&14 are interchangable so I guessed.


Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2011, 09:00:12 PM »
If this routing is correct, then there are at least five, possibly six greens closer to the 8th tee than the 7th green is.

Might be the most ridiculous one I've ever seen.

It's like somebody built 18 holes on a property and then numbered them later.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2011, 11:06:13 PM »
If there's any justice, these courses will be plowed under and made into more housing.  The homeowners are already underwater, might as well pour some more on them for being dumb enough to buy property located next to such an egregiously awful layout!
My hovercraft is full of eels.

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2011, 11:15:30 PM »
be careful. they will probably renumber the holes based on the best idea on this thread...and give you credit on the scorecard for the routing.Career killer.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2011, 11:29:59 PM »
Ah, Greg, I know this was your first try, but 4=1 and 16=1???  We're all into recycling and reuse, but poor old 4 is feeling left out.  ;)


Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Well the only other option I could find is even worse... using you numbers as the second number referencing the layout I suspect...

1=10; 2=11; 3=9; 4=1; 5-8=5-8; 9=12; 10=13; 11=14; 12=15; 13=16; 14=17; 15=18; 16=1; 17=2 & 18=3

Aqua Range with putting green near the 16th tee.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2011, 11:36:02 PM »

Greg,

A much better effort until the emoticons kicked in.

Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Well the only other option I could find is even worse... using you numbers as the second number referencing the layout I suspect...

1=10; 2=11; 3=9; 4=1; 5-8=5-8; 9=12; 10=13; 11=14; 12=15; 13=16; 14=17; 15=18; 16=1; 17=2 & 18=3

Aqua Range with putting green near the 16th tee.

THat cannot be right given your previous  comment... wow

10-14=1-5; 1=6; 7-8=7-8... but wait 9 must be 9???????? 10-13=15-18; 14-16=4-6; 17-18=2-3????????? Come on... ahs to be it.

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2011, 11:51:19 PM »

And, the winner of the routing contest is:  ALEX MILLER (now if only I could figure out how to get the emoticon buttons to work).  For this you win a round of golf with me at Bandon (at your own expense, of course).

With some embarrassment about my own confusion on the routing, I have to admit that I misstated originally that 7 and 8 were correct in your first try.  In fact, only 8 was correct.  So you need to interchange your 7 and 17 to be correct.

What confuses me is that with a blank slate housing development on flat Florida scrub land that the architect could come up with this routing and all the back and forth on tees and greens and between holes.

In fairness, I was in a grouchy state on the 7th hole when I thought of this thread.  We were well into a 2.5 hour front nine behind two foursomes of putt-them-all-out members who were grinding.  And the following twosome had driven into us on #7.  And then, I almost beaned my wife waiting on the corner at 8 while I drove. And it looked likely that we weren't going to finish before dark. 

The good news - the members dropped out after 9, and we finished the back in 1.5 hours, despite the long walks for my wife. And, it only cost $55. 

But, I don't think I'll be going back any time soon.

 



I'm enjoying this game. How about this? I think I have 16 of the 18 correct, but really who knows? 6&14 are interchangable so I guessed.



Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2011, 11:52:28 PM »
Ah, Greg, I know this was your first try, but 4=1 and 16=1???  We're all into recycling and reuse, but poor old 4 is feeling left out.  ;)


Alex,

Thanks for playing the game. You've got two holes right - 7 and 8.  I'll give you one hint - #1 is the one you have labeled as 10.



I'm actually relieved I wasn't correct. I could've told you whoever routed this was insane before, so if I had gotten it correct I do believe that would have put my mental state into question. Via your hint I think I've got it now, but boy do I hope I'm wrong!

Well the only other option I could find is even worse... using you numbers as the second number referencing the layout I suspect...

1=10; 2=11; 3=9; 4=1; 5-8=5-8; 9=12; 10=13; 11=14; 12=15; 13=16; 14=17; 15=18; 16=1; 17=2 & 18=3

Aqua Range with putting green near the 16th tee.

perhaps 1 is no longer the loneliest number i suppose

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2011, 11:54:54 PM »

And, the winner of the routing contest is:  ALEX MILLER (now if only I could figure out how to get the emoticon buttons to work).  For this you win a round of golf with me at Bandon (at your own expense, of course).

With some embarrassment about my own confusion on the routing, I have to admit that I misstated originally that 7 and 8 were correct in your first try.  In fact, only 8 was correct.  So you need to interchange your 7 and 17 to be correct.

What confuses me is that with a blank slate housing development on flat Florida scrub land that the architect could come up with this routing and all the back and forth on tees and greens and between holes.

In fairness, I was in a grouchy state on the 7th hole when I thought of this thread.  We were well into a 2.5 hour front nine behind two foursomes of putt-them-all-out members who were grinding.  And the following twosome had driven into us on #7.  And then, I almost beaned my wife waiting on the corner at 8 while I drove. And it looked likely that we weren't going to finish before dark. 

The good news - the members dropped out after 9, and we finished the back in 1.5 hours, despite the long walks for my wife. And, it only cost $55. 

But, I don't think I'll be going back any time soon.

 



I'm enjoying this game. How about this? I think I have 16 of the 18 correct, but really who knows? 6&14 are interchangable so I guessed.



SO i was disqualified for improper emoticon insertion?

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 12:04:58 AM »
Greg,

I'd be happy to declare you a winner too, if you can tell me how to get the emoticon buttons to work again.  They used to work a few weeks ago.  If you were a winner, you too could join us at Bandon during the KP.


Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Worst Routing and Design Ever?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 12:16:45 AM »
Greg,


Your equal-signs made me illiterate somehow. Yes, you (almost) got the routing right first.

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