Is the Donald good for Golf?

[JWinick]

Is Donald Trump good for the game of golf?   He is clearly one of the most well-known advocated for the game, but his style I'm sure rubs a lot of people the wrong way, as does his waterfall-laden architectural style.

I would say yes.   I think golf's image suffers among the non-golf public due its stuffiness and perceived elitism.   Donald Trump, while he is a wealthy showboat, is not a stuffed shirt.   Would I do business with him?  No friggin' way and I know people who rue the day they shook his hand on a business deal.   But, I think he's good for golf.   Thoughts?

[Matt_Ward]

I too would say yes with a bit of reservation.

On the whole The Donald loves golf and no doubt realizes that he can elevate his name in the industry through his course purchases and those he has been on from the ground floor.

The 36-hole Trump National -- located in Bedminster, NJ -- is a first rate facility and has the goods to hold a major event.

The issue when talking about The Donald is the split situation between him as showman and him as golf lover. Some folks only see him in the light of the former and dismiss the former.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Only for high end golf.

Let's see him dig deep into his pocket and help the Cobbs Creek restoration project. 3 to 5M would be nice.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Only for high end golf.

Let's see him dig deep into his pocket and help the Cobbs Creek restoration project. 3 to 5M would be nice.


Steve, since he referenced the course, it certainly would be a nice gesture.

But, he's under no obligation to do so.

More importantly, what caused Cobbs Creek to fall into disrepair ?

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

I agree w Pat -- where does it say The Donald has to be the charity care reclamation center for all types of courses ?

Cobbs Creek fell apart because of indifference and stupidity by the people who own and manage the place.

Although I personally agree it would be nice to see The Donald involve himself in some type of project that is more open to the masses and is connected to a facility with great promise -- he is under no obligation to do so.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Of course no one has an obligation of philanthropy. It's always a nice gesture. Since Trump played golf at Cobbs when he was an undergrad at at UofP, why not?

People donate for all kinds of projects. My alma mater recently recieved almost 100M for an ice hockey arena while in state residents are paying 20K for tuition/R&B. Luckily, the donor sold his company for 4B and recently bought the Buffalo Sabres hockey team. He said more money will be forthcoming to Penn State for scholarships and endowed professorships.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Frankly, the people w $$$ in the Phila area should have come to the defense of Cobbs Creek. It's not exactly like the key golf people in The Main Line don't have the resources. The Donald can't be the end-all for all things -- my God, his ego is already big enough !

[Anthony Gray]

  You bet he is good for golf.....................PASSION.

  Anthony

[Jim Hoak]

He is a joke--a caricature of himself.  I used to think he was putting on a show and that he knew he was nothing but b.s.  But, when he talked about running for President, I realized that he wasn't in on the joke.
I can't believe he is really good for golf in any way.  His courses on balance are not good--tricked-up with gimmicks, low-quality self-promotions.  When he says that one of his courses is the best in the world, he demeans the truly great ones.  To non-golfers, he presents an image of golf that is not flattering.  He doesn't even present an image of business that is flattering.
If he were doing all this as a joke, I might agree that the promotion is fun.  But he's over-the-top, and reflects badly on our game.  Maybe someone will tell me to lighten up, and I would if he wouldn't truly see himself as in any qualified to be President of the United States.

[Greg McMullin]

If The Donald was/is doing something to bring more young people into the game I would say he is good for the "game of golf". If he's building a few more gated $$$$ courses like all the other gated golf courses he's got it wrong and will be but an asterisk in the history books.

[Wade Whitehead]

He's good for Donald Trump.

WW

[Ed Oden]

Here is what I find fascinating.  Prevailing sentiment seems to be that the old model for golf is broken and the game needs a new one that isn't dependent on real estate development or the excesses that currently plague the industry.  A model that is built on affordability and sustainablility rather than luxury and overindulgence.  Yet everything about Trump screams old model.  Bigger, better, flashier, more luxurious, real estate.  And he's been arguably the biggest player in the golf market over the last few years.  How can The Donald thrive in the new world using the old model?  And what does that say about the state of the industry?

[Tim Martin]

  And he's been arguably the biggest player in the golf market over the last few years.  How can The Donald thrive in the new world using the old model?  And what does that say about the state of the industry?

Ed-Great questions and only time will give us the answers. If anybody can shake things up it`s DT.

[Jason Walker]

Ed-
as far as I know there isn't a single Trump golf property associated with real estate, residential or commercial.  They're strictly golf properties.  Obviously the forthcoming Scotland property may be different.

[Sam Morrow]

Is Donald growing the game at all? If yes then I say he is good for the game.

[Ed Oden]

Ed-
as far as I know there isn't a single Trump golf property associated with real estate, residential or commercial.  They're strictly golf properties.  Obviously the forthcoming Scotland property may be different.

Jason, if I am reading Trump Golf's website correctly, at a minimum, there is a real estate component to the following developments: 

Trump National Los Angeles
Trump International Golf Club Puerto Rico
Trump International Golf Club Canouan Island
Trump International Golf Links Scotland

[JWinick]

Yes, you need to lighten up.   His courses are overall pretty darn good.   Every single one is a total effort, and not a "phone-it-in" design.  You are nit-picking. 

As someone who has started a company in the last couple of years, I've learned how hard it is to build your brand and get the word out about your services/product.   I no longer begrudge a self-promote; after all, it's a necessary evil.   Without "The Donald," hiis courses are nowhere near as financially successful.

I don't see how saying "Trump National LA is better than Pebble Beach" demeams Pebble Beach or any other golf course.   If the great courses are truly great, they can handle it.

He is a joke--a caricature of himself.  I used to think he was putting on a show and that he knew he was nothing but b.s.  But, when he talked about running for President, I realized that he wasn't in on the joke.
I can't believe he is really good for golf in any way.  His courses on balance are not good--tricked-up with gimmicks, low-quality self-promotions.  When he says that one of his courses is the best in the world, he demeans the truly great ones.  To non-golfers, he presents an image of golf that is not flattering.  He doesn't even present an image of business that is flattering.
If he were doing all this as a joke, I might agree that the promotion is fun.  But he's over-the-top, and reflects badly on our game.  Maybe someone will tell me to lighten up, and I would if he wouldn't truly see himself as in any qualified to be President of the United States.

[Sean_A]

I never understood this type question.  What is good or bad for golf?  The game in all its forms is there for all to enjoy if they so choose.  It doesn't make any difference to the "game" if people make money from the huge industry except for perhaps for possibly the core of the business and that is course owners.  It also doesn't matter if the game isn't growing.  It also doesn't matter if great courses are built.  Golfers will still play as they always have - most of them on mediocre courses - the game ticks on regardless.  Too often people on this board on media pundits confuse the industry with the game - often because they have a direct stake in the industry.

Ciao

[Andy Troeger]

I tend to agree with Sean here. Most of these "good for golf" arguments come down to what each individual poster thinks golf should be, whether it be for business reasons or just personal opinions. What's good for one might not be good for others, but the game itself isn't that affected.

Regarding Trump, he's going after such a small part of the market that I see very little impact on the game or the industry outside of the specific areas he's targeting. The high-end of the market seems to be pretty saturated in the US, so I'll be interested to see how these projects turn out. If he develops a strong membership then he was good for golf in the area, if not, then he wasn't.  Obviously the clubs he's competing with, however, might not see it that way. If I'm right in thinking that he's purchased a couple of public courses and turned them into high-end privates, then I think that's a bit unfortunate.

I think Ed asks a lot of good questions--only time will tell.

[Melvyn Morrow]

The man is out to make money using Golf this time as the promotional element. Just how sincere is he. Well that’s debatable, but let’s not take our eyes of the fundamental reason being MONEY not GOLF.

It’s like all the other real estate deals, golf is the by product, in Trumps case it seems he just has access to loads more money, yet has it done anything for the game – in short IMO the answer is a big NO, but it was never his intention to do anything for golf.

Trump went to Scotland to make money. Selling golf, the country’s second best national product after Whiskey. He used his family to SELL his Scottish roots to make money. It was all to promote his new venture. So is he good for golf- no as it was never his intention to be good for golf but to himself.  Trump is for Trump period.

Trumps could learn from some of our great course designers that you need to work with Nature to
be the very best for golf, but then he is not alone in making that mistake.

Melvyn

[brad_miller]

Let's hope "maybe" that he buys Dormie and puts it on sound financial footing, who else is going to take out the millions....what a potential combo the new restored #2 and a Trump course that really is world class so long as he does not Trump it up both the course and facilities.

[Matt_Ward]

The Donald is looking to make an impact at a certain small slice of the golf population -- Andy spelled that out correctly. The idea that people within the industry have to be all things to all people is nonsense. Are others in the industry held to that standard? What of architects who primarily catered to the deepest of deep pockets for their services. Are they too going to be subject to this "we the people" approach?

I have no doubt that DT is a promoter of himself. So what. Plenty of others do the same thing. I have played a good representation of his courses and the top tier ones are very good -- like I said his 36-hole layout in Bedminster is well done and has the wherewithal to host a major event should one ever come that way.

The marketplace is a unique environment -- if he fails to connect in some meaingful way with the top tier -- which is very competitive landscaoe -- the net result will be the same that has befallen others. If, on the other hand, he provides a product that can't hold it's own then he will suffer a similar fate. Unfortunately, too many people only see the imagery of what DT provides on camera. I would dare say many of his harshest critics should try to play a few of his courses and then weigh in with that in mind.

[Martin Toal]

I think he is bad for golf. He reinforces the image of a game run by rich white egotists who build vanity projects. And nobody is vainer than Trump. It would be a little less offensive if his courses lived up to the hype. Trump National LA certainly doesn't. The course is utterly forgettable, and my only real memory is seeing Mark Wahlberg there. He is smaller than you would think.

[Patrick_Mucci]

He is a joke--a caricature of himself.  I used to think he was putting on a show and that he knew he was nothing but b.s. 
But, when he talked about running for President, I realized that he wasn't in on the joke.

What makes you think he'd do a worse job than anyone else ?

Which candidates have run big businesses, were losing money is deemed a bad thing.
Personally, I like Mike Bloomberg, but, he hasn't announced yet.
He combines business experience with public service experience and he's pragmatic and doesn't need the money.[/b]

I can't believe he is really good for golf in any way. 

His courses on balance are not good--tricked-up with gimmicks, low-quality self-promotions. 


Which of his courses have you played that lead you to those conclusions ?[/b]

When he says that one of his courses is the best in the world, he demeans the truly great ones. 


No he doesn't.
He's just promoting his courses.
Should he say that they're bad courses, mediocre at best ?[/b]

To non-golfers, he presents an image of golf that is not flattering. 

He doesn't even present an image of business that is flattering.

Have you or anyone you know done business with him ?
How have his buildings fared ?
How about his TV shows ?[/b]

If he were doing all this as a joke, I might agree that the promotion is fun. 
But he's over-the-top, and reflects badly on our game. 
Maybe someone will tell me to lighten up, and I would if he wouldn't truly see himself as in any qualified to be President of the United States.

He just might be more qualified than a lot of others considering a run for the Presidency.
He might be one of the few to introduce fiscal responsibility and negotiate better trade treaties.

[Jim Hoak]

Pat--  Let me answer your comments as best I can, recognizing that you make some good points--

I don't want to get into a Presidential/political discussion on a golf course website, although I do agree that Bloomberg would be good.  But Trump has no qualities that would make him a good candidate.  It's hard to believe that he is really serious.
His business success has been mixed at best.  He wants us to believe that he came from nothing, but his father was really a successful property owner, though small.  The Donald has lost money for himself and others in casinos and other properties.  On balance, he has made money, but no more near as much as he'd have you believe.  I think it is interesting that most all people listed in the Forbes 400 seek to talk down their wealth--the Donald argues that it is understated.  Certainly he has made more money than most of us, but why isn't he content to let that be the case without exaggeration and hype?
But--on to golf--the point of this site.  I have played his courses in West Palm and LA, and seen pictures of others.  In my opinion, they are fair at best.  Too gimmicked up for me.  Not strategic--just eye candy.  Certainly not in the class he would want you to believe.
But I don't want to criticize anyone who makes a sincere effort to succeed in golf, even if I don't agree with the outcome.  But a self-promoter like Trump turns my stomach and causes me to conclude that he is a negative factor to the game I love.