TOC Ballot Changes

[Sean_A]

Scott

It isn't reasonable to compare how many rounds TOC does each year with clubs because it doesn't have nearly the same obligation to club members.  The Links Trust is essentially a business trying to make as much as it can while still keeping fees low enough for locals to play.  This is a much different prospect than a club running a course.  Even at another public course like North Berwick makes daily provisions for the clubs which may seem too little for the members, but I bet its a lot more than The Trust does for the members of clubs in St Andrews. 

Ciao 

[jeffwarne]

Well, it hasn't worked for me. I hung around for five days and then a week later for another three and every time I went to the starter (about five times total) he was telling me: "all full for the rest of the day". Then, later in the day, I watched many groups going out with 2 or 3 people. I went back to the starter on two or three of these occasions, but he wasn't interested. I'm sure some of the locals would have taken me on, if I had asked them directly - but the rule is that the starter fixes up groups and I respect his position. Would be nice to be extended the same respect and courtesy in return.

The rules are the rules, obviously. But you'd think the guy, after seeing me for the third or fourth time, would at least try to help me by saying "Hey, this morning I could have done something if you had been here at XX AM" or "how long are you staying here, let me see if I can fix you up later in the week."

Other courses, where I called the starter on the phone, always had something like: "You can't play today, but how about next Tuesday" or "I can't guarantee you anything, but if you come at 11, I'll try to pair you up". It's not so much a question of whether you actually get to play or not, but more of whether you feel like an idiot asking.

About starting an online service to pair up singles, well I wouldn't want to charge someone a fee just for pairing him up with others. We are all just golfers with the mutual desire to play one of the greatest courses in the game - it shouldn't be a business to get together with fellow enthusiasts from other parts of the world, it should rather be an integral part of the experience. Plus, I am busy with another project (http://www.golfcv.de), which will of course be free to anyone, even the starter at the Old Course

Ulrich

That's a disturbing story.
One I could almost grasp if TOC were private....
I had a member and his wife at my club who got on via the "Old Course experience"
They requested to play a twosome and paid for four at "Old Course experience" rates.(very pricey)
Perhaps the groups that Ulrich sites had done something similar, or paid the starter outright to play 2 or 3.
I would think the actual Old course experience would involve meeting and pairing up with a local or two.

The lottery system is somewhat democratic, but even democracy has its' flaws

[Mark Pearce]

Jeff,

The Links Trust does not require 2 or 3 balls to accept singles.  Instead they ask 2 or 3 balls if they will take walk ups.  If they say no, that's fine.  It's quite possible for two people to walk up together and get paired with another 2 ball, if they're happy to do so.  Ulrich's experience is very disappointing and, I really hope, unusual.

[Brad Wilbur]

In May of last year, my wife and I arrived in St Andrews at 11:30 AM, and after stopping at the B and B, went for a walk down to the OC.  The starter asked us if we could go out in 45 minutes.  We were able to join two members playing a match, and had a great time.  We only made the ballot once more in six days there, but I did not aggressively pursue tee times after that.  When our tee time came up the last day, he did indeed ask us if it would be ok for two singles to join us.

[Doug Siebert]

I wonder if the reason some groups don't want others joining them is because they are concerned it might slow down their group?  I'd have on problem letting someone join my group if I was playing in a two or threesome, but what happens if you get the slowest golfer in the world and therefore your group is holding up play?  Or if I join a threesome and they are slow?  If I played the course 5-10 times a year maybe I wouldn't worry about it, but for most of it us it is one or two rounds every few years, or in some cases a once in a lifetime chance, and it isn't exactly cheap.  I can see where some wouldn't want to risk the chance (even if they concede it is small) of someone else ruining the experience for them.

[Mark Pearce]

Doug,

It isn't going to slow anyone down.  The course is full of four-balls and no-one is playing through.

Mark

[Doug Siebert]

Sure it can, if one group is playing slower than the group in front (the pace that TOC tries to maintain) then you'll have a gap open up.  The rangers/caddies are going to force you to close up that gap...

[jeffwarne]

Doug,

It isn't going to slow anyone down.  The course is full of four-balls and no-one is playing through.

Mark

If that's true, why on earth would they not pair two-balls with singles?
Seems a massive inefficiency (and contradiction)  of a busy course-
a course that goes so far as to have a lottery system, is "full of foursomes", then won't pair singles with twosomes?

[Mark Pearce]

Jeff,

Because it is not common in the UK to make groups play with others if they don't want to.  Golf is not all about efficiency, thank goodness.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff,

Because it is not common in the UK to make groups play with others if they don't want to.  

I guess if one can only find one friend, and turns down an offer for company on a course "full of foursomes"  it's probably best they not mix with others.
I do understand when a newer player may prefer to play as a smaller group when the course is less crowded (off season-late afternoon)
I also totally get it on a course that generally favors mainly two and three balls(and therefore play is quite brisk) as is common at many clubs in the UK

[Ulrich Mayring]

It's not the golfers, who wouldn't let me join up, it was the starter not asking them.

Ulrich

[Mark Pearce]

Jeff,

Because it is not common in the UK to make groups play with others if they don't want to.  

I guess if one can only find one friend, and turns down an offer for company on a course "full of foursomes"  it's probably best they not mix with others.
I do understand when a newer player may prefer to play as a smaller group when the course is less crowded (off season-late afternoon)
I also totally get it on a course that generally favors mainly two and three balls(and therefore play is quite brisk) as is common at many clubs in the UK

I can't imagine myself not agreeing to have others join us (the first time I played TOC was with my new wife and I had only been playing the game a couple of years) we were happy to have a young Irishman join us) but I know some do.  Mainly, I suspect, visitors who have paid for The Old Course Experience or similar.