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Lyne Morrison

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USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« on: February 17, 2011, 05:46:55 AM »
Folks - Which countries are currently using the USGA Course Rating and Handicap System?

1.   USA
2.   Mexico
3.   New Zealand
4.   Australia
5.   Singapore?
6.   Canada?
7.   …
8.   ..

Could you enlighten me please?
Thanks in advance for your assistance.
Cheers, Lyne

Bob Harris

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Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2011, 08:01:58 AM »

Brian Stewart

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Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2011, 08:36:51 AM »
The link that Bob provided is interesting but I think that it more indicates potential than actual usage.  That might or might not be clear to you. I've played maybe 30 courses in Malaysia and only one of them had slope and rating as far as I can recall.  If you talk to a Malaysian golfer they mostly have no idea what the USGA slope system is about.  Similar experiences in Thailand and India although a higher percentage of courses have been rated.  I certainly don't remember the courses in Brazil having it either because I always post scores when possible per the required rules. 

Even when it is used in other places I've found that it often seems quite different than what i would expect.  In Ireland the courses I've played with a USGA rating are less than what they should be IMO.  Lahinch comes across as a 73.0/131 which I guess is fine with very little weather but I've played enough golf there to find that ridiculous.  The slope calculation seems way too low based on many rounds with people that are 12+ index players.  They really struggle under "average" conditions which is not very little weather.  The rating is probably fine or close enough to be irrelevant though.  I just think that the slope system doesn't really capture the difficulty that a bogey golfer has on links courses with any sort of weather.  Perhaps it is only the people I play with but there's a pretty significant scoring increase that I have seen in my trips to Ireland and Scotland.  I've played with many of the same people in the US only similarly rated courses and watched them shoot 15+ strokes better on a consistent basis.  I'm willing to say I'm wrong here but I just don't think the slope system takes weather into account in the amount required to adequately compensate for scoring difficulty to the bogey golf on these courses. 

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2011, 03:21:56 AM »
Wouldn't Lahinch and other Irish and Scottish courses be rated by Irish and Scottish golfers?  Those guys are used to very strong winds and very F&F conditions that will mystify and terrify the average 12+ handicap coming from the US.  So I'm not surprised at your claim that even in benign conditions that those guys are struggling.  They are used to being able to hold the ball on the green, if they fly it on those greens it won't hold.  They can't hit a high ball when the wind is blowing or they better be awfully good at guessing its effect.  They aren't used to playing short game shots off extremely tight lies, or playing from deep pot bunkers.  It is no wonder they do much worse than their handicap would suggest.  Scratch golfers would do relatively better because they will have mastered more shots - even if they aren't used to the conditions at Lahinch, you can't be a one-dimensional player and reach scratch.

You'll find some Irish and Scottish golfers struggling on US courses that require have features they aren't used to, like being amongst trees as punishment for an offline drive, playing approaches from thick lush rough, approaches that require high carries with no allowance made for running it up, and thick rough around the greens that require mastery of flop shots with the LW.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Brian Stewart

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Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2011, 08:32:13 AM »
Doug,

The same formula is used to calculate slope so it doesn't matter if it is Irish players doing the calculations or not.  My understanding is that there is not a lot of room for personal interpretation in what the slope comes out to be.  Also, I agree with your points which is why I'm saying that slope doesn't translate very well to links courses from what I've seen.  I have no problem with the rating which I believe is the SSS on those course, i.e. they don't re-rate them under a different USGA method.

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2011, 11:58:31 AM »
You have to differentiate between CR / Slope and HCP system. Half the world (basically everyone except UK) uses the CR / Slope system. Virtually no one (USA and Mexico being the big exceptions) use the USGA handicap system. Personally, I think the USGA handicap system is better for honest players, but more susceptible to sandbagging.

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Lyne Morrison

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA Course Rating & Handicap System New
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2011, 09:35:04 PM »
Gentlemen thanks for the link and responses.

Related to my query above I am also curious to learn if beyond the shores of the United States there is a connection between the usga rating and h’cap system and the provision of a flexible course yardage for seniors and also for women – via two tees (I am particularly thinking of traditional member courses in contrast to newer resort style work) - or is this primarily a US occurrence? Any additional comment would be welcome. Thanks.

Lyne
« Last Edit: February 19, 2011, 11:45:05 PM by Lyne Morrison »

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