[Powell Arms]

Its open Powell?  I thought you guys got 5 more inches earlier this week?

Mark

We did, on Monday night.  Poor planning by those (like me) that didnt get out Friday, Saturday and / or Sunday.

[Terry Lavin]

I must say that this thread is a spectacular example of the benefits of an aggressive tree removal program that is done in a manner that restores the golf course to its original design.  I'm once again impressed by the work of Keith Foster and will surely stop by for 18 holes and a couple beers sometime next summer, not that I know why anybody would want to golf with me...

[Joe Bausch]

Here is a 2007 view from the tee on the par 3 15th:



The original tee was much farther to the left and the hole originally was Redan-inspired.



Here is a current view from the tee:



And this is more of the line from the original tee:



From the front of the green looking back, I believe the original tee was close to the water cooler.



From just short of the green:



From the back edge of the green:



A steep slope exists left of the green:

[Powell Arms]

Not shown is the OB down the entire right side of #15, just a pace or two off of the bank edge of the greenside bunkers.  Makes for some very interesting selections on the tee shot, as a miss left if down the slope and requires a pitch back towards OB.

The restoration will move the tee to the left (on the line of the water cooler and 30 yds beyond in the "looking back" photo) to bring back the redan.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I must say that this thread is a spectacular example of the benefits of an aggressive tree removal program that is done in a manner that restores the golf course to its original design.  I'm once again impressed by the work of Keith Foster and will surely stop by for 18 holes and a couple beers sometime next summer, not that I know why anybody would want to golf with me...

I agree on everything you just said.  When i was still living back in Phila., our course was closed for the season while R. Pritchard was doing his work and we had reciprocal agreement to play Cricket.  We all truly enjoyed the experience, and returned a number of times afterwards and thought that tree removal would make a great course really shine throough.  Also, i too really like Foster's work, and as I've said on this site before, was truly impressed by his work at Omaha CC. 

Hope to get back to PCC this summer and see the evolution!

[Joe Bausch]

The 16th is a par 4 where many trees have been removed. 



Here is a 2007 pre-tree removal pic:



Note the left fw bunker has the 'double hazard':



And overhanging branches at the right bunker:



Here is a current view from the tee:



The tee boxes are back behind the 15th green and tucked into the corner; I don't think there is any opportunity to stretch this hole out.



Approach shot view:



From just short of a smallish green:

[Kyle Harris]

*Arms outstretched on the tee*
CLASSIC AMERICAN DOGLEG LEFT

[JESII]

That was when it had the trees...

Is this hole the poster child for why people think deforestation makes a course too easy? Or in reverse, why trees make a course more difficult and threrfore better?

It certainly does look neutered.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Jim,

  Do you think the hole is too easy? 

I think, to the contrary, having the hole appear wider makes the player go for it more, and maybe play less conservatively.  I think some players may see fairway on the other side of the bunkers and try to carry them, when they cannot (Not like us, of course).
I admit to pumping one OB right, but I was getting tired at this point in the round.  This isn't difficulty of the hole, it's poor execution. 

[mike_malone]

 For me it is a question as to whether the hole was designed to have a treed dogleg or not. Supposedly, a good designer would make that approach from the left side more demanding then from the right or center. If trees were there originally  he would not need to do that.

[Kyle Harris]

The hole has some of the same general features as the fifth at Bethpage Black on a not nearly as severe piece of property and without the great diagonal hazard.

[JESII]

and about 60 yards, right Kyle?




Doug and Mayday,

I haven't seen it since the revision, but what I remember was a real high demand tee shot if I wanted to hit driver. The benefit of hitting driver (other than some added length) was a little better look at the green so it made sense for me most of the time.

[Kyle Harris]

and about 60 yards, right Kyle?

Just about. My major point being is the hole pushes play to the right over the depression short of the fairway. The further left one goes, the closer to the bunkers which proxy the hillside and the more blind the green is.

[Powell Arms]

Ah, #16

Some people have already asked for a plaque to commemorate the Kyle Harris approach from 75 yards with the putter

Although not evident from the photos, the approach is better from the outside of the dogleg, allowing a shot to the depth of the green.  Some very thick, and now healthy, rough along the inside of the dogleg does a nice job of guarding the inside.

Unfortunately, we lost one specimen tree after the tree removal was completed.  It is the bare tree behind the right side fairway bunker.

[Gib Carpenter]

Ahhhh... the great 16th hole debate.

With the exception of the railroad berm and possibly the tree in the fairway bunker at 70 yds on #7, my guess is that the tree work on #16 elicited the greatest differences of opinion. Many felt it would make the hole "too easy", while others felt it was more fair that players on the left side of the fairway or in the left fairway bunker actually have a sightline to the green (unless your game features the 30 yd hooked 7-iron from the fairway its really hard to argue this one IMO).

My view is twofold

1) the hole is currently in transition in that the Foster plan, if implemented, will restore much of the original strategic bunkering which will make a big difference. If you look at the "before" view from the tee you will note a mound short and left of the current left fairway bunker. This was originally ia 2nd fairway bunker which was removed some 15-20 years ago (probably in response to tree growth). The hole also featured a long cross bunker which ran diagonally across the beginning middle of the fairway. A keystone of the Foster plan is to restore the original design intent of the course's bunkering while making allowances for current technology. As such the 16th would once again feature 2 bunkers on the left fairway, with the 2nd bunker placed some thirty yards BEYOND the existing bunker rather than short of it. Whether the cross bunker will be restored is still a matter of debate and concern, particularly among the distaff side. Obvioulsy a 2nd bunker some 265-270 yds off the back tee will place more premium on hitting the fairway rather than simply  "bomb & gouge".

2) Even without the Foster changes I still believe the hole is greatly improved. Prior to the tree-removal I don't think it would be a stretch to say that the Wissahickon course was essentially free of rough. You either hit the fairway or you were playing from the trees and mud. I believe most anyone who has played Merion or Oakmont would agree that whether playing from rough or trees is "easier" is entirely dependent on how the rough is presented, i.e. a direct look at a green from 150 yards isn't easier if all you can hit is a sand wedge back to the fairway. It has been described to me that the work undertaken has restored the course's "width and scale" and that beyond the tremendous improvements to turfgrass and course conditions, one of the great benefits is that we now have flexibility in how we present the course - mow the rough to make holes like #16 friendlier for normal member play or conversely, grow the rough longer for tournament play.  

[Joe Bausch]

The seventeenth at Cricket is a slight dogleg left par 4 that runs uphill some at the beginning.



Here is a 2007 photo of the inside of the tree-lined dogleg:



Large sycamores ran down the entire left side:



And a bunch of hemlocks short and right of the green:



Here is the tee view currently, showing some culling of the herd to the left:



From the drive landing zone those hemlocks are history!



If you look at the green diagram above, you can see a little back left tier.  The lighting right then cast a shadow almost perfectly covering that tier, as this view from short and left sort of shows:



From the right edge of the green looking back to the dogleg:



This view again shows the shadow line just above the diagonal ridge running on the green:

[John Shimony]

Does anyone know what a tree removal operation like this costs?

[Joe Bausch]

Ok, time to finish up the photo tour.

#18.  One of my favorite finishing holes anywhere!



Tee view, where an aggressive line is the sycamore tree to the left:



The fw is quite generous:



A very good drive will still leave you about 2 bills in, downhill, with a wonderful view and frequently spectators:







I was in the lead group and had the pleasure of sitting in some nearby chairs and watching the other groups come in, like this one with Powell in the short pants:



As the sun set some nice shadows were present:



A simply wonderful day was had by all, capped with some stimulating conversation with the supe.

One last larger photo as the sun set over the 1st green:

[Tim Martin]

Joe-Great thread and use of contrast with the before and after tree removal photos. The first two pictures let you you know that an amazing effort was made to reclaim the original playing corridors and lines of sight. I agree that 18 is a great finishing hole with the creek giving the approach an added dimension.

[mike_malone]

 The tree removal is great; it enhances how well the course traverses the property.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

One of the best finishing holes...anywhere.

[John Shimony]

Great tour, Joe.  Thanks.  Seems as though Philly Cricket's program to restore the original width to the course is a real success story.  Wish them the best on their finishing touches.  Looks great, and sounds like it plays great.

[JSlonis]

Does anyone know what a tree removal operation like this costs?

John,

Remarkably, the extensive tree work cost the club very little, I know the final $$ amount, but out of respect, I'm not sure that the club wants that info out in the public. The Cricket Club has a new young Supt. who put together a great plan for the club.  The large majority of tree work was done in house.  From what I was told, the club purchased some additional equipment to do the job correctly and contracted with an outside lumber company that purchased the wood and removed it.  Although there were many pines taken down, there was also a lot of large hardwood specimen trees. The club did use a professional tree service for some large trees in areas that posed some saftey concerns.  

[Dan Herrmann]

One of the best finishing holes...anywhere.

Steve, You beat me to it.  The 2nd shot on 18 is one of those that I'll remember forever.  It's tremendously fun and a classic risk/reward scenario.   

[John Shimony]

Does anyone know what a tree removal operation like this costs?

John,

Remarkably, the extensive tree work cost the club very little, I know the final $$ amount, but out of respect, I'm not sure that the club wants that info out in the public. The Cricket Club has a new young Supt. who put together a great plan for the club.  The large majority of tree work was done in house.  From what I was told, the club purchased some additional equipment to do the job correctly and contracted with an outside lumber company that purchased the wood and removed it.  Although there were many pines taken down, there was also a lot of large hardwood specimen trees. The club did use a professional tree service for some large trees in areas that posed some saftey concerns.  

Thanks.  I knew I was asking a sensitive or whatnot question but I couldn't delete my question because I really wanted to know and didn't want to ask anyone in an IM.  I understand. That it was done in house and the wood was sold (which someone at my club brought up related to our course) is great.  The dream lives on.

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