[JR Potts]

I just injured myself in my family room celebration.  It wasn't as bad as da's chest bump, but it wad pretty bad.

[Steve D]

Does anyone know what kind of shoes Bill Murray is wearing?  Are they actually golf shoes?

[Adam Clayman]

 I despise this tournament and avoid watching it like the plague. Nothing worse than watching a bunch of amateur hacks and people trying to be funny. If you want to watch sucky amateurs play just go to your local muni. Why would I care to watch Kevin Costner or Ray Romano play golf?

Steve, You are wrong to associate the whole tournament with the CBS coverage.

The whole tournament is not about these guys. It's about much more.

And,,.. You can't argue with the drama the golf provides on Sunday when the majority of distractions are gone.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Does anyone know what kind of shoes Bill Murray is wearing?  Are they actually golf shoes?

http://www.ecco.com/int/en/collection/men/golf/131004/56985/detail.do

[SL_Solow]

As another Illini who has met DA and can confirm the nice things Ryan will say about him, it was great to see the victory.  DA won on the Nationwide tour when he holed out from the fairway so there seems to be a pattern.  As far as the tournament goes, it gives ua an opportunity to see a wonderful golf course when those of us up north are itching to play.  While some of the celebs are annoying, by the same token, they give us an opportunity to see how amateurs play a great course.  Many of our discussions on the board discuss the need for an architect to consider the games of different caliber players.  Here we have a chance to see a course that manges to do just that yet we can't appreciate the chance to observe.  If only we could see a few more shots.  But I am willing to put up with a few distractions for a week to see the course and watch different levels of players compete.  I wish they showed more of the other courses, especially MPCC.  Finally, you get a real appreciation when you compare the tournament with the Hope, which has many of the same amateurs but is played on different types of courses.  Makes one remember why we appreciate good architecture.

[Terry Lavin]

I can tell you that despite the goofing around for the crowd and cameras that Bill Murray takes golf seriously. He plays the ball "down" and is always engaged when playing the game. This will be right up there with his best movie successes. He's gonna be stoked!

[mike_beene]

two things.First,congrats to Ryan,DA,etc.I actually skipped a seventy degree golf day to watch since I had someone to pull for.Second,the quality of golf around Belair from the celebrity types is very good and the game is respected at the Belair and Lakeside type places as much or more than anywhere.I am sure there are exceptions,but the norm is very refreshing.

[Brian_Sleeman]

(Removed - stupid question)

[Jason Topp]

No.

[JNC Lyon]

Anyone know who Bill Murray's caddie was?  He was wearing an M-22 hat, notable for those of us in northwest Michigan.

See Bob Huntley's reply #45.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Ha, can't believe I missed that.  Thanks JNC.

And of course you too Jason.

[Scott Coan]

Can somebody explain to me how these (sh)amateurs can possibly be shooting these scores?

Here are the top 3 finishers:

Pro/sham      total   pro   sham
Points/ Murray    -35   (-15)   -20   -5/day
Taylor/ Mycoskie    -33   (-4)     -29   -7.25/day
Bowditch/ Miller    -33     (-8)   -25   -6.25/day

So somehow these jokers are shooting 5,6,7 shots better than thier handicaps for 4 consecutive days on PGA Tour greens.

According to the USGA this is FAR BEYOND THE REALM OF REASONABLENESS…

What am I missing??

http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25502

Now, once in a while you will hear about someone shooting an incredible tournament score, such as a net score of 59. What are the odds of shooting a score like that? These tables from the USGA's Handicap Research Team have figured the odds of one exceptional tournament score up to ten strokes better than the Course Handicap.

For example, the odds of our example player with a Course Handicap of 14 beating it by eight strokes (-8 net) once is 1,138 to one. Put another way, the average player posts 21 scores a year. That means that to score this well, assuming the Handicap Index is correct, would take 54 years of golf to do it once. The odds of a player beating his Course Handicap by eight strokes twice is only 14,912 to one. That's 710 years of golf for the average player -- odds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Can somebody explain to me how these (sh)amateurs can possibly be shooting these scores?

Here are the top 3 finishers:

Pro/sham      total   pro   sham
Points/ Murray    -35   (-15)   -20   -5/day
Taylor/ Mycoskie    -33   (-4)     -29   -7.25/day
Bowditch/ Miller    -33     (-8)   -25   -6.25/day

So somehow these jokers are shooting 5,6,7 shots better than thier handicaps for 4 consecutive days on PGA Tour greens.

According to the USGA this is FAR BEYOND THE REALM OF REASONABLENESS…

What am I missing??

http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25502

Now, once in a while you will hear about someone shooting an incredible tournament score, such as a net score of 59. What are the odds of shooting a score like that? These tables from the USGA's Handicap Research Team have figured the odds of one exceptional tournament score up to ten strokes better than the Course Handicap.

For example, the odds of our example player with a Course Handicap of 14 beating it by eight strokes (-8 net) once is 1,138 to one. Put another way, the average player posts 21 scores a year. That means that to score this well, assuming the Handicap Index is correct, would take 54 years of golf to do it once. The odds of a player beating his Course Handicap by eight strokes twice is only 14,912 to one. That's 710 years of golf for the average player -- odds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

It's a fourball and they are usually backed by par or better on the holes they are blowing up on.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Scott,

It's actually worse than that.

Those under par scores on the amateur's part had to have occured on the holes that the PGA Tour Pros didn't birdie. or par.

In other words, if a pro shot -5, with 6 birdies and 1 bogie, the amateur had to birdie holes other than those holes that the pro birdied and they had to par or birdie the hole/s that the pro bogied.

Now, what are the odds of that happening four days in a row ?

Why aren't the handicaps published ?

Would it embarrass the amateurs and the tournament sponsor ?

[Bill_Yates]

There were a total of 27 groups playing today that included 20 amateurs.

I was standing hole high on the left side of the 14th green when D.A. canned it for an eagle.  Without sucking it back to the hole, there was only one spot the ball could have landed to get close to the hole, and that was to hit the heavy rough at the top of the front bunker and let the ball die to the hole.  He nailed it from 109 yards out.  Great shot, great green!

[Carl Nichols]

Kyle nailed it -- the ams don't shoot 20-under on their own ball. They simply contribute on enough holes to net 20 total (net) strokes. If DA made bogey on some hole and Bill M made a par for a net birdie, that's a net gain of 2 of those 20 stokes on one hole. (DA is good for 15-under on all holes, good and bad; Murray just had to have 20 or fewer holes out of 72 where his net score gained them a stroke or more.)

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kyle nailed it -- the ams don't shoot 20-under on their own ball. They simply contribute on enough holes to net 20 total (net) strokes. If DA made bogey on some hole and Bill M made a par for a net birdie, that's a net gain of 2 of those 20 stokes on one hole. (DA is good for 15-under on all holes, good and bad; Murray just had to have 20 or fewer holes out of 72 where his net score gained them a stroke or more.)

Carl, that means that if he birdied the same hole that DA birdied, it didn't improve their net score, so in addition to any duplicate birdies he had to birdie holes that DA didn't birdie.  That's 20 more under par over four rounds.
For a 13 Handicap, that's pretty impressive, especially on those golf courses.

[David_Elvins]

Pat,

Most golfers in the teen handicaps, match up well with the pros in that their weak holes are most likely the pro's best holes (par 5s).  

They get a shot on a few par 3s and one good shot gets them a net birdie.

Based on the available evidence, I wouldn't be suggesting that Bill Murray had an unrealistic handicap.  he has played in the tournament for 20+ years and never come close to winning it.  

Billy Walters on the other hand...

EDIT: Just looked at the scoring:  D.A. Points had 23 birdies, 2 eagles, 10 bogies and double bogey.  That is some quite erratic play from a tournament winner but highly suited to any best ball format. 

[Carl Nichols]

Kyle nailed it -- the ams don't shoot 20-under on their own ball. They simply contribute on enough holes to net 20 total (net) strokes. If DA made bogey on some hole and Bill M made a par for a net birdie, that's a net gain of 2 of those 20 stokes on one hole. (DA is good for 15-under on all holes, good and bad; Murray just had to have 20 or fewer holes out of 72 where his net score gained them a stroke or more.)

Carl, that means that if he birdied the same hole that DA birdied, it didn't improve their net score, so in addition to any duplicate birdies he had to birdie holes that DA didn't birdie.  That's 20 more under par over four rounds.
For a 13 Handicap, that's pretty impressive, especially on those golf courses.

I understand the math, and certainly Murray had to play decently, or they really had to ham and egg.   DA made 10 bogeys and a double, so if Murray happened to contribute on a decent number of those holes, that would've gone a long way to contributing the 20 strokes.

What tees did the Ams play from?

[William_G]

The best golf being played this weekend, by the best players, is in Dubai.  The Sky coverage of Pebble Beach (I guess CBS's) is so dull as to make me turn it off.

However, the best golf is sometimes boring.

But never as dull as watching hackers play, or joke about playing. 

A race to the bottom is not my deal, but this tournament helps grow the game, hope Bill Murray wins.

Does it?  Really?  Your throw away last comment suggests even you don't believe that.  I certainly don't.  Rich celebrities treating the game as secondary.  I don't see how anything grows from that other than disillusion.

What?

[William_G]

Great event!  For sure!

But for me the start of the season is the true opener in Hawaii.  Beautiful setting and makes me forget the cold weather I am living in when I see those beautiful palm trees.  I for one would like to see people moved to the summer.  This year is the first good weather year in a long time.  I think that the weather has hurt its potential to be a marquee event again with the BIG players in the field. 

But you got it right on......The courses are spectacular! 

Definitely the bull not the matador unless it's Bill Murray, LOL, Fun!

[Bill_Yates]

Pat,
The handicaps are published.  But let me make a correction on my earlier post. 

There were 27 groups playing today with a total of 24 amateurs, not 20 as I stated earlier.  Their handicaps ranged from 3 to 18 with a mean of 11.4 and a mode of 13.

[Bob_Huntley]

Can somebody explain to me how these (sh)amateurs can possibly be shooting these scores?

Here are the top 3 finishers:

Pro/sham      total   pro   sham
Points/ Murray    -35   (-15)   -20   -5/day
Taylor/ Mycoskie    -33   (-4)     -29   -7.25/day
Bowditch/ Miller    -33     (-8)   -25   -6.25/day

So somehow these jokers are shooting 5,6,7 shots better than thier handicaps for 4 consecutive days on PGA Tour greens.

According to the USGA this is FAR BEYOND THE REALM OF REASONABLENESS…

What am I missing??

http://www.usga.org/Content.aspx?id=25502

Now, once in a while you will hear about someone shooting an incredible tournament score, such as a net score of 59. What are the odds of shooting a score like that? These tables from the USGA's Handicap Research Team have figured the odds of one exceptional tournament score up to ten strokes better than the Course Handicap.

For example, the odds of our example player with a Course Handicap of 14 beating it by eight strokes (-8 net) once is 1,138 to one. Put another way, the average player posts 21 scores a year. That means that to score this well, assuming the Handicap Index is correct, would take 54 years of golf to do it once. The odds of a player beating his Course Handicap by eight strokes twice is only 14,912 to one. That's 710 years of golf for the average player -- odds far beyond the realm of reasonableness.

Scott,

I have played in the Boys and Girls Club Tournament at MPCC  held prior to the A.T.&T. pro-Am with Bill Murray for some fifteen years. We have won a couple of times over the years, once with Mark Brooks a few months prior to his PGA championship and another time with Kevin Sutherland. Bill never bettered his handicap. I played twelve holes with him last Sunday on the Shore in a practice session and was astonished at the improvement in his swing. His tempo was languid and he was hitting the ball a long way: no matter what, he still  hit in the junk from time to time. He had not played much in the months up to the tourney. A twelve handicap may be slightly generous but he means a lot to the fund raising of the Foundation by his presence; who can blame them for following in Bing's footsteps with a bonus to his amateurs?

Bob

[William_G]

Pat,
The handicaps are published.  But let me make a correction on my earlier post. 

There were 27 groups playing today with a total of 24 amateurs, not 20 as I stated earlier.  Their handicaps ranged from 3 to 18 with a mean of 11.4 and a mode of 13.

Handicap tournaments are a testament to "it is what it is" also could be considered "fubar". Glad he won!

[Adam Clayman]

There were a total of 27 groups playing today that included 20 amateurs.

I was standing hole high on the left side of the 14th green when D.A. canned it for an eagle.  Without sucking it back to the hole, there was only one spot the ball could have landed to get close to the hole, and that was to hit the heavy rough at the top of the front bunker and let the ball die to the hole.  He nailed it from 109 yards out.  Great shot, great green!

Bill, That's an impressive number. I recall it being very difficult to make the cut, since so few teams made it to Sunday. I recall a number closer to 10 teams back 12-13 years ago.

My one time looping in this show was the first year of the new ownership. I had a lawyer from SoCal who was a 10 handicapper. We helped our pro 30 shots over three days and missed by 3. He didn't findout how good he had it until next year.

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