[Phil McDade]

The still thriving "What are you listening to..." thread got me thinking the other day.

I like early Elton John, from Yellow Brick Road on back. I think Katy Perry has a terrific voice. One of our more prolific posters mentioned the other day his like for...Sade.

How about golf courses? What's your guilty pleasure?

Rough criteria -- this is (intentionally) a GCA-centric topic. Just because someone likes Ballyneal better than Sand Hills doesn't make it a guilty pleasure. Nor are universally acclaimed, but hidden and inexpensive gems, like Aiken CC eligible.

This should be a course that, by typical and well-known GCA criteria (you know the drill...) would be panned by most here. Yet you, and perhaps others, have found it to be an enjoyable course (for whatever reason) -- interesting to play, with features that you found to your liking, and represented both a test for your game and a pleasureable way to spend four hours.

I'll start -- The Brute, at the Grand Geneva Resort near Lake Geneva, WI (the old Playboy Club). Designed, as one of his last major courses, by Robert Bruce Harris. What I liked about it: Big greens, with bold contouring; enormous, often elaborately sculpted bunkers; nice rolling terrain that Harris used in an interesting way to route the course; nothing too tricked up but some blindness and deception here and there to keep the golfer at his wits; a rigorous but fair finish in the final three holes. It's a solid course.

Others?

[Mac Plumart]

St. Marlo in Suwanee, GA

It has everything that experts pan when reviewing golf courses for their architectural merit.  Narrow fairways, lined with trees, water is an overused hazard, greens are small, rough is usually thick, with all this lost balls are a frequent occurence...even on shots that JUST miss the fairway...or green.  And maybe one or two of these elements would be okay, but to have narrow tree lined fairways on long par 4's with water in play on more than one shot with small greens...it is maddening.

Oh yeah...It has some of the worst golf holes I've ever seen. 

But for some reason, I kind of like it and enjoy playing it.  Even if I loose a dozen golf balls per round.   

[John Foley]

Phil,

Jumping on one I justed posted I will jump and say my guilty pleasure is the RTJ Trail.

Capitol Hill was solid (did not play the Judge but Legislator was very good)

Grand National is very very solid Links & Lake are very good good.

I liked the courses in Muscle Shoals - I would

Huntsville was solid, but somewhat lower - liked the par 3 course there.

I come at this with open eyes knowing it's not the greatest architecture, but IMHO it's solid - yeah there are a few holes which are head scratchers but the vast majority is solid.

Shoot me know, but count me as a big fan!

BTW - Sorry I just don't get the Katy Perry thing. I think there are a many many beterr singers out there and not a fan of her shtick.

[Mark Pearce]

Early Elton John should not be a guilty pleasure.

[Kyle Harris]

Early Elton John should not be a guilty pleasure.

The album, Madman Across the Water, should be required listening.

[Sean_A]

Elton John is not a pleasure of any type.

I don't know if any of these are really panned, but there is not a lot for them:  

Bearwood Lakes - some odd bunkering and the odd jarring hole, but a few really good holes mixed in with a boat load of solid holes.  Interesting greens in a neighbourhood which generally lacks good green sets.

Dunbar - great scenery and a few really good holes.  Some interesting par 3s. Overshadowed by other East Lothian courses which aren't any better.  
 
Donegal - some super grade level design in era where everything is padded.  

Portstewart - goes over the top here and there, but overall is packed with interesting holes.

Harlech - totally overlooked and has one of the best bunkering schemes around

Princes - I have said enough about it in the past

Ciao

[jeffwarne]

Elton John is not a pleasure of any type.

I don't know if any of these are really panned, but there is not a lot for them:  

Bearwood Lakes - some odd bunkering and the odd jarring hole, but a few really good holes mixed in with a boat load of solid holes.  Interesting greens in a neighbourhood which generally lacks good green sets.

Dunbar - great scenery and a few really good holes.  Some interesting par 3s. Overshadowed by other East Lothian courses which aren't any better.  
 
Donegal - some super grade level design in era where everything is padded.  

Portstewart - goes over the top here and there, but overall is packed with interesting holes.

Harlech - totally overlooked and has one of the best bunkering schemes around

Princes - I have said enough about it in the past

Ciao

Sean, Those aren't guilty pleasures-they're jealous pleasures!

I think the point of the thread was for someone to come out and say they like Sand Pines.
Like this-
 I really enjoyed playing the Jones course at Palmetto Dunes-in a cart-near a cart girl

[Sean_A]

Jeff

I am struggling to think of one of these sorts of courses that I really liked.  I spose the Governor's Club in Chapel Hill might fit the bill.  I would go back there for another look. There is a lot to like.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39467.0/

Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

I would choose Torrey Pines over Pasatiempo if I were ever to return to California.  I also prefer Lady Ga Ga to Katy Perry.  The Katy Perry Peacock song makes me as uncomfortable as a finishing par 3.

[jeffwarne]

Jeff

I am struggling to think of one of these sorts of courses that I really liked.  I spose the Governor's Club in Chapel Hill might fit the bill.  I would go back there for another look. There is a lot to like.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39467.0/

Ciao

I'm a little biased-I married the cart girl.......
Sean, I'm with you on not liking most of them-you probably simply just don't play most that would qualify as "guilty pleasures"
all of the courses you list (I haven't played Bearwood lakes) are solid courses and if they're not shown much love here it's only because the neighborhood they're in keeps them from getting much play by GCAers when visiting the area.

I can also add I loved Pebble Beach

[Sean_A]

Brian

I spose thats my point, I think all those courses mentioned are better than solid designs.

Jeff

You are right, I don't play many guilty pleasure courses.  That said, the next time I go back to Tobacco Road it will be a guilty pleasure in a cart because I don't want to walk that course ever again.

Ciao

[Jeff Tang]

Arcadia Bluffs.  I haven't seen a lot of love for this course on this site but I've always had fun playing there.  I think there's a good variety of holes and crazy greens with slopes you can use to your benefit.  It's a great course to look at, right on the lake, and it's always been in great shape when I've played there with very true greens. 

[JMEvensky]

Early Elton John should not be a guilty pleasure.

The album, Madman Across the Water, should be required listening.

Agreed.We must be about the same age.

[Chris Flamion]

My biggest guilty pleasure is a cart full of beer on a Saturday afternoon.

I also still like courses that are ridiculously easy.  Which for me means a complete lack of any defining characteristics.  I couldn't play them everyday, but it is fun.

Chris

[RJ_Daley]

I can't think of a guilty pleasure off the top of my head.  But with regard to your comment on RB Harris:

I'll start -- The Brute, at the Grand Geneva Resort near Lake Geneva, WI (the old Playboy Club). Designed, as one of his last major courses, by Robert Bruce Harris. What I liked about it: Big greens, with bold contouring; enormous, often elaborately sculpted bunkers; nice rolling terrain that Harris used in an interesting way to route the course; nothing too tricked up but some blindness and deception here and there to keep the golfer at his wits; a rigorous but fair finish in the final three holes. It's a solid course.

A minor point of note is that I don't think RB was famous for elaborately sculpted bunkers in his main body of work.  I think that is the Nicklaus collaboration effect on that one particular course.  I can't hardly remember the old Playboy club course from when I once saw it in about the mid 70s.  I really wasn't into GCA at that time, and was inebriated most of the time I was there.  So I don't know or remember if the old presentation of that course had the elaborate nature of bunkering you speak of.  But, the RB Harris I am familiar with here at a 9 holer in GB and Gateway in Land-O-Lakes has the traditionally RB characteristic (as described in C&Ws comments on RB) moon face broad open bunkering.  All his greens I've seen are generally large, very back to front sloped, with some shelves and internal contours.  The greens are pretty round and the spacing of bunker to green are wide for easy pass mowing considerations.  RB's influence on Packard is also prevalent in our area. 

An inside comment to you Phil is if I return to Madison for a round, we could go to Odana as my guilty pleasure or nostalgia trip.  Maybe even Glenway!   Connie Francis would be my guilty pleasure on that music front.  I don't even know anything about Parry or GaGa...

[Phil McDade]

Shivas:

I was wondering if you were going to play the Blackhawk card.

To me, Blackhawk is less guilty pleasure than high funk, with lots of quirk thrown in. It's got a lot of things -- half-par holes, greens with interest, some choices off the tee (options!) -- that make the GCA crowd drool. It just sets them in a greened-up, narrow, tree-lined course that barely stretches out to 6,100 yards.

Here it is:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,41775.0.html

RJ -- You meant Slow-dana, right? You gotta catch that course at the right time, on the right day, or it's hit-and-wait, hit-and-wait. Glenway, on the other hand, is great fun for a nifty nine holes that, depending on traffic, we could do in about an hour. And walk to one of the best burger joints in town -- it overlooks the 1st tee!

[Will MacEwen]

I wouldn't mind some more cracks at Wolf Creek (NV) and Furry Creek. 

If you are going to play cartball, no half measures.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

I agree, early Elton John should be on everyone's iTunes (isn't a shame that we don't say record collection anymore?).  also, I LOVE Katy Perry... even her videos on mute!!!

With that said, Dove Valley Ranch in No. Phoenix/W. Scottsdale area (not sure what the actual address is) fits this bill.  After playing Boulders, Troon North, and TPC courses, I thought this RTJ Jr. course was a refreshing, non-target atypical desert course more akin to Desert Forest, which is just up the road.  Obviously, doesn't have the name of these and others in the area (i.e. Whisper Rock, Estancia, GC of Scottsdale, etc.), but I thought it well worth playing again in lieu of the paying big $ for one of the others.

WW

[Tim Pitner]

My college course, Finkbine in Iowa City--a RBH design; parkland, but pretty wide playing corridors; big greens, often tough to 2-putt; challenging, but not overly so; enough movement in the land to make it interesting; I especially enjoy playing it in the fall; satisfies the walk in the park test.

Several mountain courses within an easy drive of Denver--particularly Keystone Ranch, but also the River, Raven at Three Peaks and Pole Creek--nothing real special, but it's always fun to play among the pine trees and with the mountain air, particularly as a break from the summer heat in Denver.  Keystone Ranch gets bonus points for being walkable.  

[Terry Lavin]

Harborside in Chicago is a bit of a guilty pleasure for moi.  The holes are repetitive, they have some goofy bunker designs and the course is built atop an old sewage treatment field, surrounded by a power plant, a paint factory and the city dump.  Having said that, there is some kind of urban charm attributable to never being able to forget where you are when you play the two courses that makes it oddly charming.

[George Pazin]

I guess the corollary to this thread would be courses generally held in high regard that you don't particularly care for - that list is a lot easier for me to come up with, for some reason.

Matt would say I don't get Black Mesa, and I guess he's right in some respects.

I've already outed myself as not getting the Pete Dye courses I've played (Mystic Rock and Pete Dye GC), but I think that's mostly because he tests a completely different skill set than the one I possess (hold back the guffaws, please).

My musical analogy would be Radiohead, just don't get them at all.

[RJ_Daley]

Phil, ha!  I have wondered if after Dick Whalen passed, if the VB still had good burgers.  I wouldn't be surprised if Connie Francis was playing on the jukebox the last time I was in there!  I first played Glenway when Fabian (Forte) of South Philly was an item, not 'the Fabian' famous golfer shoemaker-philosopher. (insert your own non-functioning emoticons here)

[Chris_Blakely]

Early Elton John should not be a guilty pleasure.

I agree and happen to really like Mona Lisas and Mad Hatters and a fair share of his early 70's songs.

[Chris_Blakely]

Some courses that come to mind are:

Totteridge Golf Club by Rees Jones in Greensburgh, PA

Olde Beau Golf Club in Roaring Gap, NC (this course is vertical)

Sequoyah National Golf Club in Cherokee, NC

[Mark Johnson]

thanks for the link.   Here are my guilty pleasures (in no particular order)

- Threetops;  i love a good par 3 course and this is one of my faves
- Golf Club of  Illinois:  In the middle of nowhere, a very interesting course in suburban chicago;  Yes i know it is Dick Nugent, still still they make great use of the land
- Willingers:  have been many threads about this course;  you love it or hate it
- Wynn:  See previous thread;  some great holes of "Vegas Style" artificial golf
- Trump National LA:   Great views and lots of holes with many strategic options
- Ross Bridge:  Actually my favorite of the RTJ Trail;  several fun holes as holes as you dont play the 8000 yard version
- Purgatory:  See Ross Bridge
- Chaska Town Course:   If it was well maintained (and got 50% less rounds) it would be a top 8 course in Minnesota;  More risk reward holes that almost any other course i've played.

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