[Patrick_Mucci]

hosting a US Open, PGA or for that matter, any PGA Tour event ?

How have they been improved, architecturally ?

[Philippe Binette]

getting the us open might have promoted the interest in pinehurst no 2, leading to Coore Crenshaw recent work

[Bill_McBride]

I would turn it around:  has any classic course ever been improved by changes made to host a USGA or PGA event?

[JR Potts]

Torrey Pines has certainly been improved.  I thought it was pretty bad before the renovation and after - I didn't think it was bad, just really boring.

[Mike Sweeney]

I would turn it around:  has any classic course ever been improved by changes made to host a USGA or PGA event?

Bethpage Black.

It has turned into a Mecca now for the almost 2 handicap and may be the hardest course to get on in New York if you are 6'6" and don't want to sleep in a SUV but there is no question it is an amazing course due to the US Open. Could it be better? Yes.

There is a part of me that misses the days when you could walk up because it was "walking only" and the bunkers has wet concrete in them, but again it is now a better course. Check out what Shivas stated:

Bethpage Black. Sure I heard it was great.  But I didn't realize how great.  I liked it better than Oakmont, the only other US Open venue I've played (until June when Torrey gets added to my list).   And I just love playing a walking only course.

Jason, I'm with you on Bethpage Black.  That was probably my biggest pleasant surprise.  I figured it was all typical New York hype going in...

  

[Michael Moore]

TPC Sawgrass has reaped great benefits by hosting the Players Championship.

When it opened it was considered to be grotesque and too hard even for the best in the world. Over the years many of the more crazed green contours and murderous pot bunkers have been removed.

The course is still considered absurdly difficult for your average golfer. I can only imagine what it was like in 1982.

[Michael Moore]

I would say that Tom Fazio's redesign of the Quail Hollow Club was a huge improvement over what was there before.

[Tyler Kearns]

Were Gil Hanse's changes to the TPC Boston due to criticism from the PGA pros? If so, it appears to be a much better course.

TK

[Tyler Kearns]

It seems many courses have undergone restoration projects shortly before hosting big tour events, namely Aronomink, Plainfield, Sedgefield and Greenbrier off the top of my head. Given the lead time before hosting a PGA or Senior Tour event, I imagine these tournaments served as a catalyst to getting the projects rolling and completed in a timely fashion.

TK

[Ronald Montesano]

Oak Hill East (cough, phlegm)

[JESII]

Tyler,

I can second Aronimink...so long as a couple years lead time is granted...which is not unreasonable.  Much wider corridors, better conditioning due in large part to those wider corridors, and a committment to a maintenance program that will make Aronimink a steady favorite of Tour caliber players and, so long as the rought is thinned, the rest of us.

Aronimink used to be good, it is now great.


Merion's #5 is a better hole now for high level players. Does this translate to the whole course? Not sure. None of the holes that have been lengthened in preparation for their recent and pending USGA dates are worse holes in themselves, but I think the compact, precise routing has become overcrowded or jam-packed when the back tees are primary.

[Phil_the_Author]

Shawnee.

It opened at 6,011 yards. The next year, after hosting the 1st Shawnee Open at which only regional professionals attended, in 1913 it was expanded to more than 6,500 yards and professionals from everywhere, including those who would be defeated by Ouimet in the Open later that year, Messrs. Vardon and Ray, would FIRST LOSE here to J.J. McDermott, arguably the most talented American player in the teens. It would host the 1919 U.S. Women's Championship and of course the Shawnee Open would continue into the 1930s with ALL of the great players of those years competing in it. In 1938, now at nearly 7,000 yards in length, it would host the PGA Championship which would be won by Lawson Little beating Sam Snead in the finals. Most are unaware that Snead was the PGA Professional at Shawnee during the mid-late 1930s...

Fred Waring would basically gut the course after buying the Inn and course and expanding it to 27 holes...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Please indicate if you've played the course you've cited pre and post renovation for an Open, PGA or PGA Tour event.

And, please indicate HOW the course was improved.

Thanks

[Patrick_Mucci]

TPC Sawgrass has reaped great benefits by hosting the Players Championship.

That wasn't the question.

TPC Sawgrass was designed to host PGA Tour events.

The question was/is,:

what courses have been improved, architecturally by hosting a US Open, PGA or for that matter, any PGA Tour event ?
How have they been improved, architecturally [/b]

When it opened it was considered to be grotesque and too hard even for the best in the world. Over the years many of the more crazed green contours and murderous pot bunkers have been removed.

The course is still considered absurdly difficult for your average golfer. I can only imagine what it was like in 1982.

[Phil_the_Author]

Sorry Pat, but I'm not that old to have played Shawnee before and after...

"Please indicate if you've played the course you've cited pre and post renovation for an Open, PGA or PGA Tour event. And, please indicate HOW the course was improved."

But if you'd like to know how it was improved, you can read about it in the chapter titled "The Evolution of a True Championship Course" when the book comes out in May... It begins on Page 31 as shown below...

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Pat,

Last year I played two professional event venues.

We went around the lower course at Baltusrol in September and they were doing major renovations of the bunkering on holes 14 and 15, mostly deepening and reshaping. It seems that the club has a perpetual improvement program in place in order to "keep up". The question is "where do you say enough is enough?" The answer is "never". Will it result in architectural improvement remains to be seen.

Played a match at Aronimink in October and had not seen the course in 15 years. Wow!, the architect did a wonderful job of bringing the Ross'yness back to a course that had been mangled, in my opinion, over several prior renovations. Is it my favorite Ross course?, not by a long shot. Yet, it is one tough set of 18 holes with a lot more character than it used to have even though it os still not a track that you won't struggle to remember certain holes . The green complexes are original, I think, but the club now mows down and around to create a vexing array of chipping areas which, combined with the wild contours and slopes of the greens require a lot of imagination. I could see a major here someday.

[JESII]

Malcolm,

What is it about Aronimink that makes individual hole recognition difficult?

I'm not arguing your point, because as I read your post I had to do a little thinking, but the holes are not redundant...what do you think it is?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Phil,

I did play Shawnee in the 50's.

My dad used to get invited by Fred Waring and he took me along.

Malcolm & Jim,

Was Ron Prichard's work for the club in general or specifically for preparation for an event ?
I always thought it was independent of any event, but, I'm not that familiar with the club/work.

[Ed Oden]

Pat, how has Mountain Ridge been affected architecturally by next year's US Senior Am?

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Jim,

I wish I knew, exactly.

When I first played Aronimink the only holes I could remember were the first, eighth and seventeenth.

When I played it again this past October it was the same three holes that stood out. The rest of them require harder work to conjure up. Nine and 18 playing back to the clubhouse sort of mirror one another. The rest is kinda parkland golf like I see all around Philadelphia.

My most vivid memories of my last round revolve around the green complexes which are amazing.

I would have to blame the land and the routing overall for my blah-ness. However, to reemphasize, it is one tough track.

[Anton]

Bethpage Black.  I played in the 90s on numerous car trips up in the middle of the nite from S. Jersey.  I'll never forget pulling up to the clubhouse at 3:00 am and seeing a line of people standing at the clubhouse door waiting for a tee time.  I was not only silly enough to do this once but at least a dozen times. 

Pre US Open I feel the course was actually tougher.  In mid summer that ground was so hard a tee could not be pushed into the ground without it breaking.  The fairways and greens were harder than the Southern State Parkway.  I always scored well there but after the renovation I found the course to be much more playable (and fair).  Therefore overall less difficult but in a good way.  Unfortunately the USGA Open Championship has led to more worldwide appeal, higher demand = higher greens fees, and the out of state access to the course is much more difficult bc walk on tee times are next to impossible to obtain unless you are a single.  1994 round of golf was $12 weekday.  2002 right before the Open was $85.  2010 green fee weekend = $150.  Price gouging in NY......naaaaaa!!!!! :-) 

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Pat,

Was the work done at Aronimink done specifically in preparation for an event?

I do not have an inside track to answer that question.

Yet, when I played 15 years ago I was a guest of a longtime member and he went on at length as to how the greens committee was unhappy with how past revisions had altered the course. It was Ross's original intentions that the greens should be receptive to running ground approaches and that had been lost under previous renovations.

My best guess is that the membership wanted to undo some of the previous, unsympathetic, renovations first and foremost. If the PGA came to them after that so be it. If rumor has it, the Aronimink board was not one to cater to the PGA .

[Michael Moore]

I would say that the restoration of the Old White Course at the Greenbrier is one of the great success stories in this regard.

With Lester George leading the way, a great many ancient Macdonald and Raynor features were recovered, and drainage was improved drastically.

[John Kavanaugh]

Pat,

Last year I played two professional event venues.

We went around the lower course at Baltusrol in September and they were doing major renovations of the bunkering on holes 14 and 15, mostly deepening and reshaping. It seems that the club has a perpetual improvement program in place in order to "keep up". The question is "where do you say enough is enough?" The answer is "never". Will it result in architectural improvement remains to be seen.

Played a match at Aronimink in October and had not seen the course in 15 years. Wow!, the architect did a wonderful job of bringing the Ross'yness back to a course that had been mangled, in my opinion, over several prior renovations. Is it my favorite Ross course?, not by a long shot. Yet, it is one tough set of 18 holes with a lot more character than it used to have even though it os still not a track that you won't struggle to remember certain holes . The green complexes are original, I think, but the club now mows down and around to create a vexing array of chipping areas which, combined with the wild contours and slopes of the greens require a lot of imagination. I could see a major here someday.

Malcolm,

Do you realize that Baltusrol hosted several USGA events before Tillie was hired to improve the course?

[Mac Plumart]

East Lake came back from the dead with the help of major donors, corporations, and the PGA Tour.

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