[David_Tepper]

Here is a link to a "virtual" flyover of the Presidio Golf Course in San Francisco. It appears a certain amount of "virtual" poetic license has been granted to the presentation. I wish the course looked this good in person!

http://www.bestapproachflyovers.com/PSD_presidio/

[Bill_McBride]

Have some of the bunkers surrounding the fourth green been filled in?  I always loved that very short par 3 where you were either on the green or in the bunkers that completely surrounded the green with just a couple of narrow paths on the sides.

[David_Tepper]

Bill -

You are correct. There are fewer bunkers on that hole than there used to be.

The 4th green and the bunkers surrounding it have changed 3 or 4 times over the past 30 years.

When I first started playing at the Presidio in 1983, the green was pretty much surrounded by individual bunkers. At some point around 1990 or so, the individual bunkers were eliminated and the green was surrounded by one entire "donut" bunker (a very bad look!).

The 4th green (which used to be the 13th green before the nines were reversed) always had problems getting enough sunlight as it is surrounded by very tall trees. When Palmer Golf took over management of the course in the late 1990's, they enlarged the green substantially, to provide more pin positions and spread out the foot traffic wear & tear on the green. As a result, there was less room for the bunkers, which is why there are now fewer of them.     

DT

[Matt_Cohn]

Yeah a lot of those holes look a lot less awkward than they really are in person.

Also nice tough with the 4-foot-tall reeds around the bunkers, haha.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill -

You are correct. There are fewer bunkers on that hole than there used to be.

The 4th green and the bunkers surrounding it have changed 3 or 4 times over the past 30 years.

When I first started playing at the Presidio in 1983, the green was pretty much surrounded by individual bunkers. At some point around 1990 or so, the individual bunkers were eliminated and the green was surrounded by one entire "donut" bunker (a very bad look!).

The 4th green (which used to be the 13th green before the nines were reversed) always had problems getting enough sunlight as it is surrounded by very tall trees. When Palmer Golf took over management of the course in the late 1990's, they enlarged the green substantially, to provide more pin positions and spread out the foot traffic wear & tear on the green. As a result, there was less room for the bunkers, which is why there are now fewer of them.     

DT

At that short distance, the bunkers seemed perfect.  But when you think of wear and tear on a small green that's probably too wet like the rest of the course was always kept, then the change makes sense.  Sad but makes sense.

[David_Tepper]

Bill -

Yes, no doubt the smaller green was a more challenging target to hit, especially considering the hole is no more than 120 yards, sharply downhill. Now the green is so large, it is pretty hard to miss it! 

On the other hand, the new larger green does have more slope and contour than the old smaller green. Depending on the pin position, 2-putting the new green is not a given.

DT

[Bill_McBride]

That was a very cool course, and a tough one to access, in the "old days."

I always loved the way the short holes played uphill, and the longer holes downhill, so that the course played longer than its yardage.

I loved the way there were periscopes and mirrors for the several blind tee shots.

I loved the exhaust vent above the 19th avenue tunnel.

Most of all I loved the membership composition.  All active duty military could play alongside a very exclusive membership of San Francisco nabobs and stockbrokers.  Sometimes there would be a foursome of retired generals followed by a foursome of rag tag privates followed by a foursome of nabobs.  Occasionally the odd Navy LTJG (like yours truly) would be allowed to play.  Since my parents lived on Lake Street a block from the clubhouse, it was very convenient!

And I still love the way you always think you should have scored much better than you did.  It's a sneaky tough course.........

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

That's a pretty neat presentation.
Do you know what it costs to produce ?

What's dramatically different about the real course and the presentation ?

[David_Tepper]

Bill McBride -

As a member of the civilian Presidio Golf Club for 16 years (1983-99), I can assure you the membership of my era was by no means "very exclusive" and the "nabobs" among the membership were few and far between. It may have been different back in your day.

But you are correct that the mix of U.S. military active duty & retired personnel and the civilian club produced a very unique golf club social environment. By and large, I thought the two groups got along fairly well.

One of my best memories of my tenure as a member was the year I was assistant captain of the combined Presidio Army Golf Club - Presidio Golf Club team that won the Saturday division of the entire Nor Cal Golf Association Interclub League.

Pat Mucci -

Sorry, I do not have any idea of the costs involved in producing the course flyover presentation. Arnold Palmer Golf has been managing the course for the past 10+ years.  Their staff would likely be able to point you in the right direction. Better yet, go to www.bestapproach.com for more info. 

It looks to me like the flyover shows a number of contours on the course that simply are not there. On the other hand, the course sits on some very sloped property that does not really show up on the flyover. The narrowness of some of the fairways is not really captured very well either.  

Also, as Matt Cohn has pointed out, the scraggly surrounds of some of the bunkers are overblown. All in all, it is a decent representation of the course.

DT    

[Bill_McBride]

Bill McBride -

As a member of the civilian Presidio Golf Club for 16 years (1983-99), I can assure you the membership of my era was by no means "very exclusive" and the "nabobs" among the membership were few and far between. It may have been different back in your day.

But you are correct that the mix of U.S. military active duty & retired personnel and the civilian club produced a very unique golf club social environment. By and large, I thought the two groups got along fairly well.

One of my best memories of my tenure as a member was the year I was assistant captain of the combined Presidio Army Golf Club - Presidio Golf Club team that won the Saturday division of the entire Nor Cal Golf Association Interclub League.

Pat Mucci -

Sorry, I do not have any idea of the costs involved in producing the course flyover presentation. Arnold Palmer Golf has been managing the course for the past 10+ years.  Their staff would likely be able to point you in the right direction. Better yet, go to www.bestapproach.com for more info. 

It looks to me like the flyover shows a number of contours on the course that simply are not there. On the other hand, the course sits on some very sloped property that does not really show up on the flyover. The narrowness of some of the fairways is not really captured very well either.  

Also, as Matt Cohn has pointed out, the scraggly surrounds of some of the bunkers are overblown. All in all, it is a decent representation of the course.

DT    

David, I am thinking of the '60's when it was indeed pretty stuffy.  Except for the privates!  Good job as captain!

[Ted Cahill]

David- thanks for alerting us to this link.  You know my affinity for the Presidio.  I would recommend any visitors to San Francisco looking for a public access round head straight there.  For a public course, I think the Presidio is the finest major urban area golf course.  I have played it dozens of times and I never fail to wonder at the views of San Francisco neighborhoods from many of the tees, fairways and greens. 

[Phil_the_Author]

For those that may beinterested, even though it was just a bit before any of your times, here is the original 9-hole course at the Presidio built by the founding members of the SFGC when it opened for play in 1896:

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