The Pit is going to be Pinehurst #9?

[Chris Buie]

http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/feb/14/dedman-family-buys-pit/
Thought you might be a little interested in this.  The new owner (Pinehurst Resort) says they are focused on properly finishing #2 before deciding what to do with this brand new acquisition.  That is a nice perspective on their part.
The Pinehurst establishment has large credibility with me right now for having the audacity to green light the radical restoration of #2.  Very bold - considering all the kvetching of the rank and file.  So they have my best wishes for their new course.   Let's give them time to assess the the situation.
To give you an historic dimension, this was the area that Donald Ross right hand man - Frank Maples - was going to build his one and only course - Montevideo - before the Depression dashed hopes.
BTW, 2 is going to play fast and furious - but (brace yourself) they are going to paint the fairways - for now.  Don't get yourself twisted up about that.  They are making bold steps and should be supported at this point.  After the new aesthetics work their way through peoples systems then they can abandon such measures and let nature take its course, so to speak.  So lets cool it with the armchair criticism and view things in a larger context, yes?  I just spent the better part of the evening saying as much to the coterie.

[Phil_the_Author]

Chris,

What was the specific purpose for the paint?

[Adam Lawrence]

Philip - the plan for #2 in future is for no winter overseed, and they don't think the audience is ready to embrace the (admittedly pretty stark) colour of fully dormant bermuda. So they will spray a paint on the turf instead. They have trialled it on a couple of holes this winter. It looks quite good imo - not too deep, just a nice light green hue.

[Phil_the_Author]

For me one can't expect the unenlightened to embrace the truth if one doesn't do so publicly himself...

It is always better to show the change rather than to hide it. Just my opinion...

[jim_lewis]

I'm with Chris regarding painting the fairways. It is only a minor matter worthy of little discussion when considered against the big picture of the improvement at #2.

Long strips of sod have been removed from the middle of fairways to accommodate the placement of center-line irrigation lines,  I suppose. When the sod was replaced, it left some unsightly strips that won't evaporate until the bermuda greens up in late spring, at which time the paint will also disappear. I suspect that covering those strips of sod is much of the reason for the paint. In any case, I will be be visible come June.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I've always enjoyed The Pit.  Fun course and worth seeing while in Pinehurst.  J

[John Shimp]

Chris,
Fixing up the pit could go a ways towards contiuingnto improve the excitement level of pinehursts offering.
Do you know who at the resort is driving the changes that appear to be so positive?
Thanks

[hhuffines]

Chris,

Can you give us an update on the amount of work left on #2?  Are they still on target for a mid march opening?

Thanks!  Hart Huffines

[Chris Buie]

Hello Philip.  Mr. Lawrence articulated the answer to your question better than I could.
John, it is my understanding that there are only a handful of people involved.  However, these positive things would not be happening without Robert Dedman and Don Padgett.  They should get some sort of GCA award, should they not?
Hello Hart.  The course is pretty much ready and they will open next month.  I think it is the 4th - have to check on that.  It will take some time to reach the full effect but it will be a great play right away.  
http://www.pinehurstnumber2.com/

[Adam Lawrence]

Hart - I was at Pinehurst over the weekend and spent two days walking round the course. I should save detailed comments for my story, which I hope to post on our website later today, and then in more detail in the next issue of the magazine, but yes, they plan to be open again two weeks on Thursday. I personally think it's a pretty aggressive timescale, not because the works won't be finished (they essentially are now, apart from more wiregrass planting) but because of the work Jim highlights below. Once the bermuda starts to grow, it'll be fine very quickly, I'm sure, but that won't have happened by 3 March. There's also some new turf around the collars of the greens that could use a couple of weeks of good growth to knot down.

Adam

[Tom ORourke]

I had played the Pit many years ago and went back last spring. It was disappointing. It looked like it was in need of some TLC and upgrades, which means money. The tees were in bad shape, and the greens were okay, but not what they were years before. There was a morning outing that did not seem to be too large. After that our 2 groups teed off and there was about it. There seemed to be no more than 12 - 16 people on the course. And the pro shop was closed when we came in around 5:00. How many places have a pro shop closed then? We were on a golf trip and it was standard fare that some of our guys would go in and buy a shirt, or hat, or something after each round. Not an option there. I talked to one of the maintenance guys who talked about the lack of play. Some of it was the general economy, some the local economy, some the competition, but their play was way down. This should be a positive development for them. It just looked like a place on the way down. Slowly, but heading down. I think Tobacco Road might have hurt the Pit. It had been a course to go to for groups looking for a different kind of course with some wild holes. It is minor league compared to TR.

[Bill_McBride]

Centerline irrigation on #2?  Does that mean narrowed fairways? 

With lots of waste bunker sand, careful irrigation design is critical. Any spraying of water into the waste areas will mean lots of grass incursion and increased maintenance costs to get it out.

I speak from experience because we had that problem with our extensive waste areas here at Pensacola.

[Steve Kline]

Centerline irrigation on #2?  Does that mean narrowed fairways? 

With lots of waste bunker sand, careful irrigation design is critical. Any spraying of water into the waste areas will mean lots of grass incursion and increased maintenance costs to get it out.

I speak from experience because we had that problem with our extensive waste areas here at Pensacola.

My guess is they are going to centerline irrigation to keep the water from getting to the waste areas. They want the course, especially the exterior portions of the fairways to play extremely fast. I think they aren't worried about watering every blade of grass.

Chris - the best news I have heard in a long time is that you and others just said they will no longer overseed on #2. That is freaking fantastic. I have applauded the redesign every step of the way while remaining skeptical that they would get the maintenance right. But the lack of overseeding has boosted my confidence they are going to get it right.

I will be down to play #2 at the end of March.

As for buying The Pit - our group used to play it every other year or so. But, it became a dump. Some of the holes are downright awful. I think the course would need almost a full scale redesign for me want to play it anymore. I'd rather play TR. And instead of spending money on the Pit I think they would be better served spending that money on their current courses and getting the playing conditions up, which have suffered in recent years in my opinion and are not up to the level of the rates they charge.

[jim_lewis]

Bii:

In most cases the fariways on #2 will be 20-30 yards wider than before due to the fact that the rough (grass rough, that is) is being totally eliminated. There is definitely more room to drive it in the fairwary, but if you hit down the edges of the fairway, there will be no rough to keep the ball out of the sand and wire grass. I think most pretty good players will find it easier to play off the sand than from the bermuda rough that was there before. The wire grass, however, is another story.

They have removed hundreds of sprinkler heads. As Steve suggested, the centerline irrigation l is intended to avoid irrigating the sandy waste and to minimize the growth or weeds in the sand (other than the wire grass, which definitly qualifies as a "weed" if you are in it!).

I also celebrate the decision to discontinue overseeding on #2. That is a pretty bold step since almost all resort courses in the South overseed to appeal to guests from the norh, who seem to be turned off by the look of dormant bermuda. Most of us in the South grew up playing on dormant bermuda in the winter and prefer it. The only problem is if it stays wet for long periods, not much of a problem in the NC Sandhills.

Regarding the Pit:  It is not clear yet what Mr. Dedmon plans to do with it. I have to believe he bought it for a song. He may have just be concerned about what another buyer would do and how that might effect the value of the hundreds of acres he owns next door. Presumably he will spend some money on it and add it to the Pinehurst Resort portfolio. Who knows, maybe he will plow it under and just combine the property with his neighboring tract to bring his total in that area to 900+ acres. He might just sit on it for a few years and wait for a better opportunity for the total parcel. In any case, he can probably bring the course up to a decent standard a lot cheaper than building a new Rees Jones course, which was the plan a few years ago.

Jim

[Chris Buie]

Not long before 9/11 they were going to put in what amounts to a small town in that area.  I did see the plans for that - and they were elaborate.  I believe there were going to be two courses.  As you can see from the image below, they started working on one of those courses before that eras edition of economic dilemma shut it down.
I seriously doubt they have any firm plans for the Pit yet.  I would guess they would keep the course with significant modifications - a pretty big overhaul of the course.  But that is just a guess.  One thing I hope they do NOT do is make another big championship course out of it.  Numbers 6, 7 and 8 are like that.  Better to have an interesting, shortish course.  There are already more than enough lengthy courses in the area.  A huge percentage of people don't drive it over 200 yards anyway - so why not have something for them?  And have it different in style from what is already there many times over to appeal to others looking for a change of pace?  I think it could quite possibly go over well if they put it in the hands of a clever architect - with a nice sturdy chainsaw.
Richard Tufts son Peter also had designs on that area.  I think it was the late 1960's when he was going to build a course there to be called Old Yadkin.  Like Montevideo, that didn't come to pass.  Every course around here seems to have this intricate past full of stories.  

[Bill_McBride]

Are there sprinkler heads with 90' radius?

[Tim Nugent]

Are there sprinkler heads with 90' radius?

yes but not used very often as they inefficient in their water distribution patterns. (we refer to them as Water Cannons).
For a site like the revsed PH#2, it is best to start your irrigation by laying out adjustable part-circle heads at the egde of the turf (spraying inward) and filling in the middle with full-circle heads.  In many instances this can be achieved with one row of heads. creating a triple row system. We like to get Head-to-Head coverage (which means a sprinkler will throw water to the adjacent sprinkler) This will usually yield about 140-150 feet of coverage. In wider parts, it may be necessary to go with a double row of full-circle heads, adding another 70-75 feet.

RE: The Pit,  I hope they bring it back to life.  I think it holds a place in architecture history as it was at the forefront of using golf to reclaim damaged lands. Without The Pit. would there even be a TR? Black Diamond Ranch?, Victoria National?  Danny Maples was on the cutting edge.

[jim_lewis]

Tim:

You are absolutely right about the Pit's place in history. When it openned, it was just as controversial and made probably an even bigger splash than Tobacco Road. Many of the holes were routed through valleys created by the excavation of the old abandoned sand pit. In several cases I think Dan laid out the holes pretty much as he found them without moving much dirt (sand). I may be mistaken, but I think Dan was also one of the owners of the course in the beginning.

Jim

[jim_lewis]

Here is a link to an updated story in the local paper regarding the Dedman's purchase and plans for the Pit.

http://www.thepilot.com/news/2011/feb/15/dedmans-buy-pit-golf-links/

[Bill_McBride]

Are there sprinkler heads with 90' radius?

yes but not used very often as they inefficient in their water distribution patterns. (we refer to them as Water Cannons).
For a site like the revsed PH#2, it is best to start your irrigation by laying out adjustable part-circle heads at the egde of the turf (spraying inward) and filling in the middle with full-circle heads.  In many instances this can be achieved with one row of heads. creating a triple row system. We like to get Head-to-Head coverage (which means a sprinkler will throw water to the adjacent sprinkler) This will usually yield about 140-150 feet of coverage. In wider parts, it may be necessary to go with a double row of full-circle heads, adding another 70-75 feet.

RE: The Pit,  I hope they bring it back to life.  I think it holds a place in architecture history as it was at the forefront of using golf to reclaim damaged lands. Without The Pit. would there even be a TR? Black Diamond Ranch?, Victoria National?  Danny Maples was on the cutting edge.

Thanks, Tim, that's what I was getting at.  If our irrigation designer at Pensacola CC had bordered our large waste areas with half-heads as you suggest, we would not be paying thousands of dollars annually to get the weeds out of the sandy areas.  Instead he tried to calculate throws to the edges, and the result is weeds in the waste.  Bummer!

[Brian Freeman]

One thing is for certain - you won't be able to get on there for $50 any more.

[Tim Nugent]

Are there sprinkler heads with 90' radius?

yes but not used very often as they inefficient in their water distribution patterns. (we refer to them as Water Cannons).
For a site like the revsed PH#2, it is best to start your irrigation by laying out adjustable part-circle heads at the egde of the turf (spraying inward) and filling in the middle with full-circle heads.  In many instances this can be achieved with one row of heads. creating a triple row system. We like to get Head-to-Head coverage (which means a sprinkler will throw water to the adjacent sprinkler) This will usually yield about 140-150 feet of coverage. In wider parts, it may be necessary to go with a double row of full-circle heads, adding another 70-75 feet.

RE: The Pit,  I hope they bring it back to life.  I think it holds a place in architecture history as it was at the forefront of using golf to reclaim damaged lands. Without The Pit. would there even be a TR? Black Diamond Ranch?, Victoria National?  Danny Maples was on the cutting edge.

Thanks, Tim, that's what I was getting at.  If our irrigation designer at Pensacola CC had bordered our large waste areas with half-heads as you suggest, we would not be paying thousands of dollars annually to get the weeds out of the sandy areas.  Instead he tried to calculate throws to the edges, and the result is weeds in the waste.  Bummer!

Bill, the sad part of that story is that the outer +/-20% of the throw doesn't yield Effective Coverage. only the largest droplets make it out that far and they land with a wide dispersion. Remember, we are dealing with circular area which is a squared radius function.  THat is why we like to have head-to-head coverage. The increased amount close to the sprinkler makes up for the lesser amount far from it.  This is why you have weed isssues at the perimeter.  The irrigation is not enough to support turf but enough to support weeds.

As for a solution to your problem, about the only thing you could do is 1) expand your turf areas to encompass the outer reaches of the existing sprinklers and add the perimeter part circles.  Since it seems you wentwith the low budget option (there isn't anything that can't be done worse for less money) it is doubtful that you have adequete mainline pipe size or spare stations in your controllers to handle what would amount to increasing your fairway demand by 1/3.  Granted, there are ways to retro existing systems to combat these deficenies but you have to be creative and it helps if you come from an era when systems were upgraded rather than just abandoned and replaced.

Unfortunately, not many architects or super's know how to design modern irrigation systems and leave it up to the "irrigation designer". So there isn't much in the way of checks and balances or value engineering. Usually, the super will get what he desires, leaving the architect the odd man out, so they have by and large thrown in the towel and don't get involved.

[Bill_McBride]

Are there sprinkler heads with 90' radius?

yes but not used very often as they inefficient in their water distribution patterns. (we refer to them as Water Cannons).
For a site like the revsed PH#2, it is best to start your irrigation by laying out adjustable part-circle heads at the egde of the turf (spraying inward) and filling in the middle with full-circle heads.  In many instances this can be achieved with one row of heads. creating a triple row system. We like to get Head-to-Head coverage (which means a sprinkler will throw water to the adjacent sprinkler) This will usually yield about 140-150 feet of coverage. In wider parts, it may be necessary to go with a double row of full-circle heads, adding another 70-75 feet.

RE: The Pit,  I hope they bring it back to life.  I think it holds a place in architecture history as it was at the forefront of using golf to reclaim damaged lands. Without The Pit. would there even be a TR? Black Diamond Ranch?, Victoria National?  Danny Maples was on the cutting edge.

Thanks, Tim, that's what I was getting at.  If our irrigation designer at Pensacola CC had bordered our large waste areas with half-heads as you suggest, we would not be paying thousands of dollars annually to get the weeds out of the sandy areas.  Instead he tried to calculate throws to the edges, and the result is weeds in the waste.  Bummer!

Bill, the sad part of that story is that the outer +/-20% of the throw doesn't yield Effective Coverage. only the largest droplets make it out that far and they land with a wide dispersion. Remember, we are dealing with circular area which is a squared radius function.  THat is why we like to have head-to-head coverage. The increased amount close to the sprinkler makes up for the lesser amount far from it.  This is why you have weed isssues at the perimeter.  The irrigation is not enough to support turf but enough to support weeds.

As for a solution to your problem, about the only thing you could do is 1) expand your turf areas to encompass the outer reaches of the existing sprinklers and add the perimeter part circles.  Since it seems you wentwith the low budget option (there isn't anything that can't be done worse for less money) it is doubtful that you have adequete mainline pipe size or spare stations in your controllers to handle what would amount to increasing your fairway demand by 1/3.  Granted, there are ways to retro existing systems to combat these deficenies but you have to be creative and it helps if you come from an era when systems were upgraded rather than just abandoned and replaced.

Unfortunately, not many architects or super's know how to design modern irrigation systems and leave it up to the "irrigation designer". So there isn't much in the way of checks and balances or value engineering. Usually, the super will get what he desires, leaving the architect the odd man out, so they have by and large thrown in the towel and don't get involved.

What I figured -- we're screwed!

[Brock Peyer]

I have played the Pit three times and consider it to be Tobacco Road before Tobacco Road.   It is so different from everything else but is a much more raw course than Tobacco Road.  I will be curious to see what they do with it as I love everything about Pinehurst Resort.

[Bruce Wellmon]

I think this is potentially very interesting.

Do they "redo" The Pit or use the land to build a new course?

Who is the architect if they build a new one?