If a course opens with a thud, will it ever be considered great?

[PCCraig]

There are many stories of different modern courses that opened to high rankings, high demand, and universal praise…and then once the novelty wore off the course would settle closer to where it really should be. The best example of this could be Shadow Creek, which opened up ranked in the Top 10 in the country, but has since fallen.

Some of the high-profile modern course openings with high aspirations over the past 5 years: Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, Old MacDonald, Dismal River, Harbor Shores, & the Prairie Club courses… only Chambers Bay and Old Macdonald have seen real acclaim with the others falling way short of expectations.

Erin Hills and Dismal River have tried to correct their faults through course and management changes. But will they ever actually be considered great? Or because they opened so poorly will that stigma carry over for the rest of the years they’re open?

Is there an example of modern courses that are now highly regarded, but when they opened were disliked and written off?

[Will MacEwen]

Pat,

I don't know if it had a thud, but it seems to me like Sawgrass is more respected now than it was when it debuted.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ballyneal

[M. Shea Sweeney]

There is a course that opened last decade which opened with a "thud" in some circles.

It will be all over that same circles radar very soon, and deservedly so.

[Anton]

I would love to see Dismal River recover.  I think people rushed to judgement and crucified Nicklaus's design without giving it a fair chance.  Pine Hill GC in NJ is a great example of hype that died off rather quickly (thud).  Now it is getting a shot of adrenaline from the uber rich Mr. Trump.  A few waterfalls, a helicopter pad, and shaaaaa zammmmmm it will be better than Pine Valley.  So he thinks......

[Sam Morrow]

Pat,

I don't know if it had a thud, but it seems to me like Sawgrass is more respected now than it was when it debuted.

That was my first thought as well.

[Scott Szabo]

Ballyneal

I realized there were some issues with the playing surface early on, but did it really open with a thud?

[Kris Shreiner]

Chambers Bay opened with a lot of hype(after a fortune spent) and had major conditioning issues early on. The worst seems to be behind them and The Amateur was well recieved. I hope that positive improvements continue as there is a lot at stake financially for that facility and the outlying communities.

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

It's a good question.  I think that all the "Best New" voting has a reinforcing effect among the panelist class, so if a course finished low in the Best New the year it opened, for whatever reason, it has a hard time leapfrogging the courses that were ahead of it back then.  Lost Dunes is one example of that; it finished third, and took several years before it could be rated well after that.

More later ... gotta get on a plane!

[JC Jones]

A course should always be judged for what it is.  Not what it was nor what it could be.  

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

The idea a course can be deemed "great" so quickly begs for slippery slope things to happen not too long down the roiad.

Years back Digest rightly excluded courses from top 100 consideration until a sufficient waiting period happened. When they changed that you had a situation like Shadow Creek happen to show what can happen when people weigh in too quickly because of the hype and fanfare.

Too many times the "new"ness provided a quick bolt to the top and then when a bit of time is applied you get a bit more balanced views based on more people weighing in. Harbour Town is another one that comes to mind on that front.

In my experience less than 5% of any new course(s) is worth remotely what is being said. Old Macdional is a great example of a place that actuially exceeded, the hype that was happening.

I think your title of your thread should be when a course is exalted initially -- was all the hype really justified.

If a course is truly a "thud" (you'll need to really define that) then frankly I doubt seriously whether it can become great without additional changes being carried out. TPC / Sawgrass is a good example of what Pete Dye did from its original forumla to what it later became.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

To be fair, you have to view Harbour Town with a 1970 lens.  It was so different than anything else in that era, and a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon because they thought that was the direction architecture needed to go ... no different than Sand Hills or Redlands Mesa.  In future, all of them will be viewed slightly differently, precisely BECAUSE they changed the direction of architecture and spawned many imitators.

In fact, if you go back farther, Augusta National was probably the same sort of course ... the only difference is that it couldn't spawn imitators because it opened in the depths of the Depression.

For what it's worth, I think some of the vehemence against Dismal River was a direct result of their attitude.  They moved in next door to Sand Hills, and projected the idea that whatever Sand Hills was, they could do just as well, or better.  That didn't just piss off the locals, it pissed off a lot of people who thought minimalism was more than a fad and who didn't think Dismal River really embraced it as they claimed to.  Not to mention that there were some glaring problems with the golf course, which they've been working on since it opened.

[Anton]

Tom,

To that same effect do you feel that The Prairie Club embraces the minimalist attidude?  I agree that DR pissed off people with the "we are better than SHGC and can be a higher class facility in every aspect".  But I do think they have a great variety of holes out there.  They just rushed it and over did it.  They aimed WAY too high and got burned.  Now its taken 3 ownership groups to 'maybe' get it right.

Thanks for the input!