[TEPaul]

BINGO!!

It is just amazing how even textual references can often lead to answers or very strong indications of them. God knows how many times I have poured over C.B. Macdonald's autobiography (thanks again for giving it to me, Patrick, just about eight years ago) and still missed some small but really important references in it (probably because at the time I'm just looking for other things and other issues and subjects in it).

But right there at the end of his chapter on NGLA and his reference to Raynor he mentions the use of a counter map at NGLA and that he got Raynor to do one and perhaps even including plastic relief (that includes the vertical dimension) models of the land.

In that section in his autobiography Macdonald also mentions that he gave Raynor his "surveyor's maps" which he had brought back from Scotland and England.

I wonder if those "surveyors maps" from Scotland and England that he brought to NLGA with him also had "contour lines" on them (topos)?

This might fairly accurately push back the first use of PRE-construction topo maps that I am aware of at this time to NGLA and perhaps 1907 or so. But I think we need to look abroad due to Macdonald's reference his Scotland and England "surveyor's maps."

Was Macdonald the first known architect who truly partnered in architecture with a professional suveyor/engineer (the Princeton educated Seth Raynor)? And could this be one of the primary reasons Macdonald referred to himself as the first known "golf course architect" that he was aware of?

[Jeff_Brauer]

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Topographic-Map.html

The above site has some info on how old topo maps are and here are a few snippets edited down:


Some of the earliest known maps were made in Mesopotamnia, in the area now known as Iraq, where a series of maps showing property boundaries were drawn in about 2400 B.C. for the purpose of land taxation. A Roman map dating from about 335-366 A.D. showed such topographical features as roads, cities, rivers, and mountains.

Although the basics of land surveying were known as early as 1200 B.C. , and perhaps even earlier, the use of surveying techniques in preparing maps was limited to cities and other small-scale areas. Larger-scale maps were prepared from sketches or journals kept by explorers and sometimes reflected more imagination than observation. As a result, the exact positions of points on a map were often grossly in error.

One of the first large-scale mapping projects was started in the 1670s by Giovanni Domenico Cassini, who had been persuaded to make a detailed map of France. After Cassini's death, his children and grandchildren continued to labor on the project. The final result, called the Carte de Cassini, was published in 1793 and was the first accurate topographic map of an entire country. Its only shortcoming was the general lack of elevation measurements, other than a few spot elevations determined by measuring the variation in air pressure with altitude using a barometer.

The concept of contour lines to show different elevations on a map was developed by the French engineer J.L. Dupain-Triel in 1791. Although this method allowed the accurate depiction of land contours and elevations on a flat, two-dimensional map, it was not widely used until the mid-1800s.

In the United States, the federal government recognized the importance of accurate topographic maps in a rapidly growing country. In 1807, President Thomas Jefferson established the Survey of the Coast to map the Atlantic coastline as an aid to travel and commerce. In 1836, this organization was renamed the U.S. Coast Survey, and in 1878 the name changed to the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey. In the meantime, mapping of the interior of the country fell to a variety of individuals and organizations, including the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1804-1806, who mapped their route from St. Louis, Missouri, to the Pacific Northwest. During the period from 1838 until the outbreak of the Civil War in 1861, the Army's Corps of Topographical Engineers made major contributions in mapping the western United States, including a detailed map published in 1848 based on John Fremont's explorations. By the 1870s, so many different groups were conducting surveys that their work began to overlap. To consolidate this effort, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) was established in 1879.

Most of the early map making was done by laborious field surveys. Starting in the 1930s, the USGS began using aerial photography techniques to produce and update maps. In the 1980s the use of computers to scan and redraw existing maps significantly reduced the time required to update maps in areas of rapid growth.

Today, the USGS has more than 56,000 topographic maps of the United States in various scales, plus maps of the moon and planets. They also publish specialty maps including geologic, hydrologic, and photoimage maps for a variety of uses.

[TEPaul]

Very interesting background info on surveying and topoing.

Thank you, Jeff.

I believe I am going to cut and save this entire thread for future reference when it seems it's run its course.

[Mike Cirba]

That's the first time I've seen the PV topo...thanks Ian!

I find it incredibly interesting that it, and the Cobb's Creek topo (which Crump was also involved with) both are ball and stick drawings with the hole number included in the ball.   The only difference is that the Cobb's Creek one has the hole yardage indicated about mid-point of the stick, but other than that, they are remarkably similar.

[Jeff_Brauer]

TePaul,

It is interesting but doesn't really answer your question. It was difficult work and on another map history site, they wrote that the biggest advances were during times of War, specifically the Civil War, where generals went all high tech, using railroads for supply, balloons for recon and maps to fight the war. 

Around Atlanta, I have seen some old war maps and the southern ones, with home field advantage seemed much better, but it is acknowledged that generally, the north had better mapping skills.  I have told the story, but we overlaid an old Union march route map over our golf course maps (we had to do a lot of work to get it to scale) and when we were clearing trees, right where it said the cannons crossed Pumpkinvine Creek, we found a natural rock bridge and waterfall!

Other histories of maps say the first US mapping was around cities, and then of course the American West.  Golf courses were probably down the priority list, so seeing references to them in the early 1900's probably made sense. 

Just looking at old Scottish courses, I don't recall too many maps with contour lines, if any drawn in the 1800's.  But golf grew in America after topo mapping got into full swing, and generally had a more scientific path than early courses in GBI so the timing was perfect for golf courses to use them. I imagine a course like the first NY muni might have inadvertantly been the first to use good topos, since they may have already been done for the cities.  If not those, then perhaps a develoment course (like Merion) where the developer could recoup the cost of the maps more readily than a financially strapped golf course.  Of course, there just might have been some rich guy interested in having maps of his property and having a golf course, too.

In any case, it is an interesting subject and maybe going back through that compilation of golf course maps thread might yield and earlier date than suggested in posts above.

[Mike Hamilton]

To follow up on Jeff's history, following the USGS creation in 1879, I believe a lot of mapping was completed in the Northeast before 1900.

The attached link I believe is the Merion property in the upper right hand corner (likely also continued on another quadrangle).

http://historical.mytopo.com/getImage.asp?fname=cstr98ne.jpg&state=PA

I believe this map is 1891 or 1895 and is a 15 minute map.  Historically intersesting but I'm sure not detailed enough for use in GCA.

[Steve Okula]

I read one version of how contour lines were invented while reading Bill Bryson's book, "A Short History of Nearly Everything".  In the chapter entitled, "The Size of the Earth", Bryson tells about early attempts to calculate the volume and mass of our planet.

The Schielhallion experiment was carried out on the mountain of that name in central Scotland. The following is from Wikipedia, because I could cut and paste this description and I'm too lazy to transcribe the more amusing version found in Bryson's book. The Mason referred to is the same surveyor who partnered with Dixon to create the Mason/Dixon line betwenn Maryland and Pennsylvania.

"Schiehallion's isolated position and regular shape led it to be selected by Charles Mason for a ground-breaking experiment to estimate the mass of the Earth in 1774.[5] The deflection of a pendulum by the mass of the mountain provided an estimate of the mean density of the Earth, from which its mass and a value for Newton's Gravitational constant G could be deduced. Mason turned down a commission to carry out the work and it was instead coordinated by Astronomer Royal, Nevil Maskelyne. He was assisted in the task by mathematician Charles Hutton, who devised a graphical system to represent large volumes of surveyed heights, later known as contour lines.[6]"

[Neil_Crafter]

Obviously this is not an example of the earliest use of contour plans, but it may be one of the few examples of an architect doing his own topo map survey. Alex Russell, who was a civil engineer in training at Cambridge when he signed up for the Royal Garrison Artillery in 1914 was clearly familiar with the use of top maps as an artillery commander in WW1. When Royal Melbourne were planning their new Sandringham course, Russell and another member were asked to come up with their designs. Russell undertook his own survey of the property and prepared a contour plan, from which he built a model of his scheme. Mackenzie later complimented Russell on his scheme when he saw it in 1926.

[George_Bahto]

The earliest map/survey of National appears in The Evangelist of Golf and instead of topo lines it has elevation numbers along the line of play of each hole, 50 yards apart.

Macdonald used this particular piece as one where he began plotting hazard: yellow crayon for rough hazard locations and shapes and there also are India ink marks over some of the yellow marks where he apparently changed his mind about some hazard locations.

I would assume this was 1907 (perhaps '06) because the name on the plan is The National Golf COURSE of America and the routing began from today's 10th hole.

so this predates any topo of NGLA as far as anything I've found

[RSLivingston_III]

That was ingenious using barometric pressure to measure the elevation changes. Of course without being near an ocean it would be difficult to get a zero value each day. I wonder if they had a trick for that or would the changes just be relative to the lowest point contained within the area of the map.

[Joe Bausch]

Well, I have an article stating that the Princeton golf course had a Professor Harris survey the land and create a topo map for Willie Dunn and the greens committee to use in late 1899.

I think this is the leader in the clubhouse. 

[Bill_McBride]

Who is John Galt, er Tom Paul?

[JESII]

Somebody run over to Happydale to check Tom's vitals...

[DMoriarty]

Well, I have an article stating that the Princeton golf course had a Professor Harris survey the land and create a topo map for Willie Dunn and the greens committee to use in late 1899.

I think this is the leader in the clubhouse.  

 I think Dunn may have used preconstruction topo maps on a number of projects, including the 1893 twelve hole course at Shinnecock, and the expansion of Le Phare at Biarritz to 18 holes in 1892.  

Some of his projects were early engineering feats so it shouldn't really surprise anyone that he would use topos.

[Neil Regan]

Here's an early topo, from 1901. Kent, Michigan

[Ian Andrew]

Here's an early topo, from 1901. Kent, Michigan

Just awesome to see that.
I think more mapping was used than we think.

I really do expect someone will eventually find something pre 1900 and post it.

[Steve Lang]

:<))

various folks needed topo maps in that era as well as they do today for public works and roads.. consult your state geological survey, like below from PA in 1887 for Philly Water Dept ...

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