Carrying clubs onto flights

[Patrick_Mucci]

Carl,

Buy the four dowels, it's worth the investment and peace of mind.

Tiger, I now Fed-X my clubs, but, I still put the four dowels in the bag.
You can't be too careful.

[Ben Sims]

Never had a broken club on an airplane or using a shipping company with this product.

http://www.clubglove.com/User/ViewProduct.asp?ProductID=18

[Richard Choi]

Ben and Pat, our enemies are full of motivated and capable individuals. However, usually those are not the guys on the suicide missions. The smart guys are the ones raising money, building the bombs, and recruiting suicide bombers.

I am not advocating that we have no security at all at the airports. But basic check for weapons is good enough for deterring 99.9% of the cases. Things like banning liquids and full body x-ray scanning is only marginally making us safer (if that) while greatly adding to the inconvenience and privacy.

The terrorists have already been successful in getting explosive materials on board, either by shoes, underwear, and shipping altered printer cartridges. If you think any system can prevent these things and more, you are really asking too much.

The terrorist will succeed one of these days. That is just a matter of when, not if. They would have succeeded many times already if they could have figure out better methods for detonation. They will figure it out eventually (if not just get lucky).

But even if they succeed, you have to be mindful that you are thousand times greater likely to die from a car accident than by a terrorist bomb. And if the thought of dying while driving is not scary enough to stop driving, then certainly nothing terrorist can do should stop you from flying or doing anything else you enjoy.

It is all about risk analysis. In a free society, complete security is not possible. You need to evaluate how much security you are really buying with your investment. And sinking more and more time and resources into airport security is just not warranted.

[Carl Nichols]

Carl,

Buy the four dowels, it's worth the investment and peace of mind.

Tiger, I now Fed-X my clubs, but, I still put the four dowels in the bag.
You can't be too careful.

Pat:
Thanks.  I've never had a club get broken, and to be honest, if my several-year-old driver gets snapped it will push me over the edge to buying a new one.  But my scratch golf wedge, on the other hand . . . .

[Mark Chaplin]

Having been to Israel a few times I can assure you security is pretty tight at their airports and they screen rather vigourously both entering and leaving the country. Due to number of passport stamps they would consider "unhealthy" I have never been detained for less than three hours when trying to enter the country. Having been held with Palestenians and other Arab state residents I "flew through" immigration compared to them.

[Steve Strasheim]

"Take off the tin foil hats and think about what is really important.  If waiting 2 extra mins in security for the moron who can't figure out he's not allowed to bring shampoo in his carry on saves me the 1/1,000,000,000 chance that he's going to use it maliciously.....well darnit, I'll just wake up 2 mins early to not have to take that chance."

Wow, so the people that bring the wrong size bottle of shampoo on board are morons?

TSA screening is an absolutely pathetic waste of time and money in order to appear politically correct. Of all the hundreds of thousands of shampoo bottles the TSA has confiscated, not one has ever had explosives inside. People that have brought this shampoo on board have absolutely zero chance of being a terrorist. They are simply victims of useless and wasteful political correctness.

There is absolutely zero chance I (put in your own name if you like) will attempt to blow up a plane. Yet, in order to get on the plane I am treated as though my name is Akbar and I live in Pakistan. So, it seems that TSA must some how imagine that a terrorist has broken into my bathroom and spiked my shampoo. Yea right.

I find it revolting that so many free people have bought into this hogwash and accept it as OK. Then, instead of standing up for what is righteous and commonsensical, they call fellow travellers morons and continue to accept a gross violation of their privacy as though they are smart.

[Bob_Huntley]

Steven,

Strong lettter to follow.

Bob

[Mark Smolens]

Fed ex is the way to go. There is minimal risk and it works like a charm. If you have  time fed ex ground is like 35 bucks coast to coast.

FedEx is great unless your clubs being shipped to Arizona only made it to Memphis -- where they were apparently (allegedly?) stolen. Then the bastards claimed that I had not "declared" the value of the clubs, and sent me a check for $150 to cover my loss. The shipping copy with my declared value was practically blank (you've got to press down pretty hard for the writing to make it down to that last copy.

Fortunately my renter's insurance covered the theft, and lo and behold, when I sent a nice letter to State Farm's subrogation dept volunteering my services to sue FedEx, I was shortly thereafter advised that FedEx had sent the insurance company a check to cover the monies that they had paid out.

However, there was no way for them to compensate me for the loss of my brass ball markers from my trip to Scotland or my Dad's golf bag. So Fu*& FedEx.

[JMEvensky]

Fed ex is the way to go. There is minimal risk and it works like a charm. If you have  time fed ex ground is like 35 bucks coast to coast.

FedEx is great unless your clubs being shipped to Arizona only made it to Memphis -- where they were apparently (allegedly?) stolen. Then the bastards claimed that I had not "declared" the value of the clubs, and sent me a check for $150 to cover my loss. The shipping copy with my declared value was practically blank (you've got to press down pretty hard for the writing to make it down to that last copy.

Fortunately my renter's insurance covered the theft, and lo and behold, when I sent a nice letter to State Farm's subrogation dept volunteering my services to sue FedEx, I was shortly thereafter advised that FedEx had sent the insurance company a check to cover the monies that they had paid out.

However, there was no way for them to compensate me for the loss of my brass ball markers from my trip to Scotland or my Dad's golf bag. So Fu*& FedEx.

Haven't you ever wondered why used club prices are so cheap here?Memphis is more than Elvis and great bbq.

[C. Squier]

Wow, so the people that bring the wrong size bottle of shampoo on board are morons?

Yes, after being told dozens of times and missing the very readable signs in the airport, you're a moron if you get caught with liquids that aren't allowed on the plane.  Want your giant bottle of shampoo? Check it.  You want to speed up security?  Start with all the dolts who look like magicians pulling metal objects out of their pockets after setting off the metal detector 4 times in a row and act surprised when they discover their watch and belt are indeed made of metal.

TSA screening is an absolutely pathetic waste of time and money in order to appear politically correct. Of all the hundreds of thousands of shampoo bottles the TSA has confiscated, not one has ever had explosives inside. People that have brought this shampoo on board have absolutely zero chance of being a terrorist. They are simply victims of useless and wasteful political correctness.

A 6th grader who has a rudimentary interest in science knows that with 2 bottles filled with 2 different types of liquids can make a big bang.  No, shampoo has never been used to take over a plane....point conceeded.  But shockingly, the bottles can be used to carry other liquids!  

There is absolutely zero chance I (put in your own name if you like) will attempt to blow up a plane. Yet, in order to get on the plane I am treated as though my name is Akbar and I live in Pakistan. So, it seems that TSA must some how imagine that a terrorist has broken into my bathroom and spiked my shampoo. Yea right.

Tim McVey and Ted Kaczynski looked like any other normal white guy walking through the airport.  And by the way, there are plenty of good middle easterners out there as well.  My good Indian friend never gets any traction by explaining his people hate the people that blew us up on 9/11 just as much as we do.  But your solution is we train TSA to be blindly bigoted and ignore the fact that lily white guys may not like us either.  

I find it revolting that so many free people have bought into this hogwash and accept it as OK. Then, instead of standing up for what is righteous and commonsensical, they call fellow travellers morons and continue to accept a gross violation of their privacy as though they are smart.

The only reason I feel my privacy is violated is if the TSA staffer on duty has an X-ray fetish and gets off by my lovely blue boney profile.  Other than that, have at it.  And yes, if you can't follow simple rules (like 'em or not) after being told dozens of times by the media and IN THE AIRPORT, I stand by my assertation of "moron".  

[Richard Choi]

A 6th grader who has a rudimentary interest in science knows that with 2 bottles filled with 2 different types of liquids can make a big bang.  No, shampoo has never been used to take over a plane....point conceeded.  But shockingly, the bottles can be used to carry other liquids!   

A 6th grader may not know that liquid explosive are highly unstable and are not the best bombs in the world because of difficulties in mixing and detonating (as the terrorist have found out). It would be easier to just stick a dynamite up your butt or put it in a extra laptop battery. It would be totally undetectable and much more effective, which is why banning liquids is just pointless.

[Steve Strasheim]

Clint,

So after calling me a moron in your first post, you have now doubled down and insist that it's true.

Given my natural offense to these comments, perhaps you'll allow me to defend myself.

Commercial air travel is now the worse possible experience for me. Since things have gotten so ridiculous for the typical commercial coach travel, I refuse to travel in that fashion. Avoid airline travel entirely these days and feel blessed to be able to do so. However, my kid loves golf and I live in a cold climate so last year we booked a trip to Phoenix. Extremely busy before the trip, I still managed to make a special trip to Osco Drug and purchase some small bottles of shampoo for my kid and I. They were the smallest bottles of shampoo being sold and I had hoped they would be small enough. You could cover the entire bottle by closing your hand over it. But no, before we could board the plane some people that frankly look a lot more terroristic than I confiscated those little bottles.

Perhaps I should have been more specific and detailed in my purchase of small shampoo bottles to pacify folks like you, but frankly, I don't give a crap. They stole my shampoo and you can justify it with what reasoning? Because some middle-eastern psychos killed thousands of innocents in 2001? It's just absolutely pathetic that our citizens have become so accepting of intrusion. Why should I have to expose my son to massive doses of radiation just to get on a flight? He and I are not out to kill anybody, that much is 100 percent clear to any observer. There is zero chance of either of us bringing bombs on board as any unindoctrinated person can see.

I used to be a frequent flyer before frequent flyer programs. My earliest recall of airport security systems intruding is when they initiated limiting the length of the blades on scuba knives. This was understandable in a way, but you might be surprised by how they handled it. The person at the ticket counter talked to the pilot who agreed to allow my knife travel in the cockpit with him on the way to Australia. In those days airline people understood that us customers were the good guys, we didn't want to slice anybodys neck, just wanted to enjoy our travels. When we arrived at the destination, the pilot gave me the knife and I went on my way.

Contrast that with today and then tell me who is the moron.

[C. Squier]

Clint,

So after calling me a moron in your first post, you have now doubled down and insist that it's true.

Given my natural offense to these comments, perhaps you'll allow me to defend myself.

Commercial air travel is now the worse possible experience for me. Since things have gotten so ridiculous for the typical commercial coach travel, I refuse to travel in that fashion. Avoid airline travel entirely these days and feel blessed to be able to do so. However, my kid loves golf and I live in a cold climate so last year we booked a trip to Phoenix. Extremely busy before the trip, I still managed to make a special trip to Osco Drug and purchase some small bottles of shampoo for my kid and I. They were the smallest bottles of shampoo being sold and I had hoped they would be small enough. You could cover the entire bottle by closing your hand over it. But no, before we could board the plane some people that frankly look a lot more terroristic than I confiscated those little bottles.

Perhaps I should have been more specific and detailed in my purchase of small shampoo bottles to pacify folks like you, but frankly, I don't give a crap. They stole my shampoo and you can justify it with what reasoning? Because some middle-eastern psychos killed thousands of innocents in 2001? It's just absolutely pathetic that our citizens have become so accepting of intrusion. Why should I have to expose my son to massive doses of radiation just to get on a flight? He and I are not out to kill anybody, that much is 100 percent clear to any observer. There is zero chance of either of us bringing bombs on board as any unindoctrinated person can see.

I used to be a frequent flyer before frequent flyer programs. My earliest recall of airport security systems intruding is when they initiated limiting the length of the blades on scuba knives. This was understandable in a way, but you might be surprised by how they handled it. The person at the ticket counter talked to the pilot who agreed to allow my knife travel in the cockpit with him on the way to Australia. In those days airline people understood that us customers were the good guys, we didn't want to slice anybodys neck, just wanted to enjoy our travels. When we arrived at the destination, the pilot gave me the knife and I went on my way.

Contrast that with today and then tell me who is the moron.

Steve, my "moron" comments are tongue in cheek.  Of course, if you board a plane next month and try to carry on the same bottles again I'd question why you're testing the system. 

You and I are completely harmless flyers.  But how does a TSA agent make that determination?  Whack jobs come in all shapes and sizes and there's NO way any "system" can have any consistency if these little decisions are left up to the thousands of TSA agents across the country individually.  Do I think not being able to carry a travel bottle of shampoo on a plane is outrageous....yes.  But is being told you have to check them in baggage taking away from "life, liberty and justice for all?"  Not at all. 

Your knife story is very believable and was probably the way things were handled in years past.  But the world has changed.  I remember kids bringing their BB guns to school for show and tell and it wasn't a big deal.  Today there's half a dozen school shootings a year.  Blonde haired, blue eyed psychos.  You just can't eye someone up and know for sure.  So rules are put in place and they're obviously on the conservative side. 

First rule of flight school is that every plane lands.  I just want to make sure mine does so gracefully.  Having to check certain items, take off shoes at security and walking through a metal detector just don't count as lost personal freedoms, but simply minor inconveniences to help accomplish the goal of getting to where you're going. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steven,

If liquids weren't restricted, don't you think that a plane would have been brought down by now ?

When you have the money and resources, and individuals willing to die, it doesn't take much to make a bomb capable of bringing down an airliner and killing 300 people, unless you think Lockerbie was a fabrication.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Richard Choi,

Obviously, you've never driven with TEPaul.

As to the incremental risk, you don't know what that would have been WITHOUT TSA prohibitions and screening.

I tend to think that Lockerbie would be a weekly occurance.
Funny how we all seem to forget that and view the threat solely as shoe and underwear bombers.

Since my daughter, while a student overseas, was almost bumped to that Pan Am flight from a BA flight, perhaps the risk seems closer to home and the probability higher than your guestimate.

[jeffwarne]

Does anyone think charging extra $ to check bags has sped up the process?
ineresting in an era of high security screening that we wouldn't legislate away airlines ability to exacerbate the problem by charging the average family of four $100-200 extra per trip to properly check luggage-which means all that crap is now carried on slowing the security lines and the boarding process.
i particularly enjoy 150 people jamming up at the gate of the plane as they exit (in an area never designed for that function), waiting for their luggage which had to be gate checked, because after the first 30 people boarded there was no more carry-on luggage space left.
yes I fly Southwest almost exclusively-who has dramatically improved their nonreserved seat process-and bags fly free-checked-where they belong

[C. Squier]

Does anyone think charging extra $ to check bags has sped up the process?
ineresting in an era of high security screening that we wouldn't legislate away airlines ability to exacerbate the problem by charging the average family of four $100-200 extra per trip to properly check luggage-which means all that crap is now carried on slowing the security lines and the boarding process.
i particularly enjoy 150 people jamming up at the gate of the plane as they exit (in an area never designed for that function), waiting for their luggage which had to be gate checked, because after the first 30 people boarded there was no more carry-on luggage space left.
yes I fly Southwest almost exclusively-who has dramatically improved their nonreserved seat process-and bags fly free-checked-where they belong

Agreed on all points.  I remember when you used to have to stuff your carryon into the little metal frame thing by the ticket counter.  Today half of the real luggage is carried on and completely jams up the plane.  Seems as though Southwest is the only airline that has a few of these things completely figured out.

[Mark Pearce]

At least most of the posters on this thread, being US citizens, don't also have to deal with US Customs when arriving into the USA.  All the security is bad enough without having, after a long flight, to stand in a line for upwards of 60 minutes, watching the multiple US citizen gates pass all returning US citizens promptly, before having some bored moron in a uniform rudely ask some questions you have already answered.  And that's for a middle aged white bloke in a suit with a UK passport.  I hate to think what it's like for a young arab trying to enter the USA.

There are, of course, exceptions to this rule and I make a point of thanking them. 

[Bob_Huntley]

Mark,

The anti-Immigation block in the U.S. should lobby for more Customs and Immigration officials at all airports. Their very presence is enough to dissuade any furriner from wanting to enter.

Bob

[Terry Lavin]

Just fly private.

[Sam Morrow]

I flew right after 9/11, it was the short flight from OKC to Houston but what transpired when checking my clubs was pretty damned funny. The clubs didn't bother the folks at the ticket counter is was the balls, they took the balls out of the sleeve and bounced them on the ground. I'm not sure why they did it but oh well. Of course 2 years ago going from Houston to Vegas I was searched by the TSA and I wasn't checking any bags. I was taken into a small room and searched, after it was done I asked the large fellow who searched me if I should ditch my girlfriend on the trip and take him instead. He didn't think I was funny.

[Doug Siebert]

Just fly private.

This will remain a great option for avoiding the TSA circus until the day Al Qaeda realizes that they could bring 500 lbs of explosives onto a private plane without having any security checks, and fly it into a building, a big crowd, the control tower at LAX, etc...

I hope this doesn't happen, but if it did it would be interesting to watch the conflict between the TSA and congress, where the instinct of the former to protect against the last attack to avoid being blamed goes up against congress's big corporate and wealthy donors who don't mind all the TSA hassle so long as it is only the little people who are subjected to it.

[Pete_Pittock]

Two golf clubs are allowed as carry on starting April 25th.

On a side note I used Shipsticks to return my golfgloved clubs from Streamsong to Portland, three day air. I had about 4 days without golf before my return so I thought this would be easier than lugging them in rental cars, hotels and airports.

                                                                            $179.

[Bill_McBride]

I flew right after 9/11, it was the short flight from OKC to Houston but what transpired when checking my clubs was pretty damned funny. The clubs didn't bother the folks at the ticket counter is was the balls, they took the balls out of the sleeve and bounced them on the ground. I'm not sure why they did it but oh well. Of course 2 years ago going from Houston to Vegas I was searched by the TSA and I wasn't checking any bags. I was taken into a small room and searched, after it was done I asked the large fellow who searched me if I should ditch my girlfriend on the trip and take him instead. He didn't think I was funny.

At least you got lucky with him!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Two golf clubs are allowed as carry on starting April 25th.

Pete,

Less than a week ago, two flight attendents told me that their airline would NOT permit carry on clubs.
I argued that the "carry on" rules allowed for it, but, they insisted that each airline could elect to refuse clubs as "carry on"

It will be interesting to see what happens.

I asked them how a golf club would be more effective than a baseball bat in the confined quarters of the fuselage, but, they didn't see the relevance.

Then, I thought of cane swords and would the X-ray equipment discern the difference if disguised as a golf club.

I still don't get allowing knives,

On a side note I used Shipsticks to return my golfgloved clubs from Streamsong to Portland, three day air. I had about 4 days without golf before my return so I thought this would be easier than lugging them in rental cars, hotels and airports.

                                                                            $179.

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