[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Desert Forest certainly first in AZ

[Matt_Ward]

Tiger:

You make a definitive statement.

Have you played the other ones I listed above it ?

Specifically a place like WR / Lower, to name just one.

[Jim Franklin]

Desert Forest certainly first in AZ

Have you been talking to Troeger?

[Andy Troeger]

Desert Forest certainly first in AZ

Have you been talking to Troeger?

I think I've made my point by now...I'll let this one slide!

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Curious to know if Blackstone is more public than private ?

Yes, they have a membership there but if the public side is really the $$ producer it would be interesting to note.

Got to say the AZ public scene -- without the privates involved -- makes for an interesting discussion.

I'll try to post a top 20 listing with just those that are mainly public.

[Jim Franklin]

Desert Forest certainly first in AZ

Have you been talking to Troeger?

I think I've made my point by now...I'll let this one slide!

I tried hitting a smiley for you but it wouldn't let me. So I will just throw in a ;-).

[Matt_Ward]

Unrelated directly but I understand DM was purchased by the members for roughly $73 million. Wondering if Lyle Anderson is just moving aside. DM had been his shining star for many, many years.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

Lyle Anderson has been out of all his golf courses,either voluntarily or involuntarily, for a few years. The DM members bought the 6 courses and 500 acres of undeveloped land from Crescent Properties.

He is now devoloping a luxury residential/resort community between TGC Scottsdale and Tonto Verde:

www.ecoresortscottsdale.com

[Brian Stewart]

Steve,

It is actually between Golf Club of Scottsdale and Troon North.   Just off of 118th St.  My house is between GCS (122nd) and Vista Verde (174th) so I'm fairly acquainted with the area.  The Reserve (what they call the area) was originally supposed to be something else (home or a high end "luxury residence" club). 

[Matt_Ward]

Steve / Brian:

Thanks for the info -- be curious to see what Anderson does -- always has been a visionary with plent of his projects in the Valley area.

[Matthew Petersen]

Steve:

Curious to know if Blackstone is more public than private ?

Yes, they have a membership there but if the public side is really the $$ producer it would be interesting to note.

Got to say the AZ public scene -- without the privates involved -- makes for an interesting discussion.

I'll try to post a top 20 listing with just those that are mainly public.

Where did you get the idea that Blackstone may be more public than private? If they allow any public play, they are certainly not advertising it, unlike many other "private" courses in the area.

Or, to put it another way, if there's reasonable public access for Blackstone, I need to get out there ASAP.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Blackstone is not public. Reciprocal play is allowed,even during prime winter season.

IMO it is the most fun course to play in the PHX area.

[Matt_Ward]

People would be wise to play Blackstone and also The Raven at Verrado -- west area of Phoenix has some nice golf options beyond the pricey and private ones in and around Scottsdale.

[Tom Yost]

Matt,

Lyle Anderson has been out of all his golf courses,either voluntarily or involuntarily, for a few years. The DM members bought the 6 courses and 500 acres of undeveloped land from Crescent Properties.

He is now devoloping a luxury residential/resort community between TGC Scottsdale and Tonto Verde:

www.ecoresortscottsdale.com

No golf component to an "eco-resort" I presume.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Tom,

There appears a tie in to TGC Scottsdale on the website of The Reserve. If Anderson's project ever gets built, then that club will be busier.

Matt,

Have you played Lehman's Encanterra in the far East Valley? I'd place it in your 5th group.

[Adam_Messix]

Matt--

Perhaps I've missed it, but I don't think I've seen a mention of Mirabel.  What are your thoughts?

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

You didn't miss it.

And for good reason -- Mirabel is one of those protype TF courses that often get panned -- it's got great scenery being just down the road to the entrance to DM and it has a few holes of note -- but TF did far better with Estrancia and WR / Upper in my mind.

If Mirabel had been built just after say Desert Highlands it might have warranted more discussion -- but the bar for quality golf design in AZ -- especially in the Scottsdale area has really risen. Mirabel just can't compete with the ones I mentioned. If you've played it would like to know your thoughts.

[Adam_Messix]

Matt--

Thank you very much for your reply.  I haven't played Mirabel.....yet.  I will in all liklihood have an answer in a couple of weeks. 

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

Try to get on Silverleaf if possible -- ditto for Outlaw at DM. Both are well done and not slogs by any means.

[Adam_Messix]

Thanks....they're both on my list, it's a matter of getting it timed right.

[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

The good news is that a ton of stellar golf is so close to Outlaw and Silverleaf.

Good luck with the access to a few of the others.

Be sure to check out the west valley selections that Steve S and I have chatted about.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

Can you outline what you see with Lehman's Encanterra being so good ?

Thanks ...

p.s. Lehman did assist with John Fought with the Gallery North and I liked what was done there.

[Dave Givnish]

The spot where Anderson's project is supposed to be sited is in the land between Dynamite Road and Golf Club Scottsdale.  As you drive into GCS, the driveway is a bit rough until you get to the fence with their sign.  You are driving across where the Ecoresort is supposed to go at that point.  There is no golf component as I understand.

Since GCS has had a relationship with the Four Seasons at Troon for a while (guests can get on GCS), I suspect that if Anderson's project ever gets off the drawing boards and is built, there is the possibility of a relationship between it and GCS.

Los Cabelleros in Wickenburg has been largely lost in this conversation.  They have had some financial difficulties of late, but this has been a great track with a long history.  Has anyone played it in the last couple of years?

[Matt_Ward]

Dave:

I agree w you -- Los Cabelleros is a fine course and heading up to Wickenburg is always a treat -- real southwest flavor and great overall facility.

I've played it a few times over the years -- the last being about five or more years ago. The issue was the commitment of mgmt to the golf course and for the layout to play nearer to the firm and fast way it did when I first played it nearly 20 years ago.

If all things gel -- I could see Los Cabelleros grabbing a final spot in the last grouping.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt,

Encanterra is not a typical desert course. I believe there are 115 acres of turf there as opposed to 90 acres limit in Scottsdale. Lehman created the course out of a nothing piece of flat land land. It's a "Core" course with housing on the perimeter and not too much of it at the present time. I think Brad Klein covers the course here:

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2009/jan/24/raters-notebook-encanterra/

I can't disagree with his assessment.

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