News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

Pages: [1] 2

Brett Hochstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
"Make the hole bigger"
« on: February 03, 2011, 05:09:19 PM »
Tom Weiskopf just suggested during the telecast of the WM Phoenix Open that to bring back golf (or some similar sentiment--basically, grow the game more than it has), we should make the hole bigger, citing that 92% of the 26 million registered golfers cannot break 90.  Basically his justification is that the game is too slow, and watching the pros makes it even worse.  Now, a majority of us are going to slam this as crazy talk (after all, it is changing the one constant and defining characteristic of our very game), but take a moment to think about it.  Could there possibly be any benefits to such a bold move, whether it be improved pace, enjoyment, or whatever else?  In what non-obvious ways would this affect architecture present and future? 
Logged
"From now on, ask yourself, after every round, if you have more energy than before you began.  'Tis much more important than the score, Michael, much more important than the score."     --John Stark - 'To the Linksland'

http://www.hochsteindesign.com

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 05:11:32 PM »
you're right its crazy talk!
Logged
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Brent Hutto

Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 05:20:37 PM »
Then 90-whatever percent of golfers wouldn't be able to break 88. Most of those hackers are picking up everything inside four feet and still shooting 93.
Logged

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 05:21:27 PM »
It would be a boon for wussies and idiots.

Think of the drama that surrounded Phil Mickelson's eagle lip-out this past Sunday. A six inch cup turns a lip out into a ho-hum moment.

....and think of how many more people will become dejected when they start missing the six inch cup from 6 feet.

Stupid idea, best left for mini-golf.
Logged
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 05:23:57 PM »
That's the first time I have heard this suggested by a former Tour pro.  But I'm not surprised it comes from one who was a great ball-striker, and a below-average putter for the Tour.
Logged

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 05:29:14 PM »
But doesn't the fact that putts account for about 1/2 of the score emphasize putting above all else? I would think 1/3 would result in a better game.
Logged

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 05:30:09 PM »
I think a marginal increase in the hole size wouldn't fix the pace or the scoring problem.  I think a significant increase in the hole size would make putting much less fun.  If anything people would spend even more time on longer putts because they'd convince themselves that they could make it since the target was bigger.

I'd be more for enforcing a shorter set of tees for those of us that don't play as well.

"Good morning, Mr. Bert.  I see you are a 13 handicap.  You'll be playing our 6100 yard tees today.  Yes, I understand completely that you are fully cpable of playing from the 6500 yard tees looking at it purely from the standpoint of your distance off the tee.  But, unfortunately, while you hit the ball far enough, there is still the small matter that you suck at golf to consider.  Once you demonstrate that you can get around the course in fewer than 80 shots we'll allow you to move back."

"Good morning, Mr. [insert name here].  I see you are a 26 handicap.  You'll be playing the 5600 yard tees today.  Yes, I understand completely that you are fully capable........."

Logged

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 05:30:53 PM »
Back in the day Gene Sarazen suggested that.  In fact, they tried that in Pinehurst - in the sand greens days.  Apparently, it did not make an appreciable difference. They have an example of Sarazen's 8 inch cup on the sand green at the Tufts Archives (below).
92% of the 26 million registered golfers cannot break 90?  That sounds about right.  I think I may have played with a large percentage of that group.
I can't say I am too keen on an 8 inch hole but without a doubt most courses are too hard for the average player.  Making them more playable yet strategic and interesting is what I would like to see.  I don't think we need that many more "championship" courses.  
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 05:45:47 PM by Chris Buie »
Logged

Morgan Clawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 05:36:58 PM »
I think I saw somewhere that in Japan (maybe Hawaii?) they draw a circle around the hole.  The circle looked to be about 3 feet in diameter. If a players 1st putt stops within the circle, then they are given an automatic gimme for the 2nd putt.

Has anyone seen this in practice?

I think this idea would make a lot of sense on a lot of courses. Players could have the option of playing it how they would like to. My guess is that the higher handicap players would adopt it in most instances.

Changing the size of the hole is just not realistic. It would be like making the football field only 80 yards long. Not going to happen.
Logged

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 05:40:21 PM »
Wasn't this experiment tried by a magazine?I remember the results being hugely disproportional--the best players made a much higher percentage of putts but the worst players only had a marginal increase.

Am I,as usual,misremembering?
Logged

Melvyn Morrow

Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 05:41:47 PM »
Does this mean that I have got to go and get some new round down drain pipes – the current size has worked so well with the water.

You would think that a golfer should have no problem getting his ball down the small hole. Is this what they call progress or just more lazy approach to golf. Or is it a problem getting a fat hand into retrieve the ball due to lack of exercise, also some can’t putt that well so need a bigger holes. Hell you would think that some lessons may be the easiest option, but we must not stand in the way of progress.

Melvyn
Logged

JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 05:44:07 PM »
Quote from: Morgan Clawson on February 03, 2011, 05:36:58 PM
I think I saw somewhere that in Japan (maybe Hawaii?) they draw a circle around the hole.  The circle looked to be about 3 feet in diameter. If a players 1st putt stops within the circle, then they are given an automatic gimme for the 2nd putt.

Has anyone seen this in practice?

I think this idea would make a lot of sense on a lot of courses. Players could have the option of playing it how they would like to. My guess is that the higher handicap players would adopt it in most instances.

Changing the size of the hole is just not realistic. It would be like making the football field only 80 yards long. Not going to happen.

I've seen it done for corporate/charitable outings.
Logged

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 06:11:50 PM »
Morgan, I saw this used at LACC North. I believe its known as "circle of friends".  I believe this bigger hole idea was suggested by a golf manufacturer executive a few weeks ago. Citing the game as being no fun and wanting to bifurcate the rules. The irony in the man's statements due to his position in the golf industry is as thick as Piroclastic flow. With the same result.   
Logged
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 06:58:46 PM »
Golf is no fun because of modern course design that emphasizes visual aesthetics over golf shot values and "tour style" setups that favor narrow fairways with high rough. 
Logged

Brent Hutto

Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 07:35:17 PM »
Quote from: JMEvensky on February 03, 2011, 05:40:21 PM
Wasn't this experiment tried by a magazine?I remember the results being hugely disproportional--the best players made a much higher percentage of putts but the worst players only had a marginal increase.

Am I,as usual,misremembering?

You're probably recalling Bob Rotella's recounting of it in his first book.
Logged

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2011, 08:58:13 PM »
Let's lengthen the holes
grow the rough
plant a lot of "native" rough
narrow the fairways
firm up the greens
cut the fairways tighter than the greens used to be
get green speeds twice as fast as hey used to be

..............and make the holes larger because the games too hard
stupid idea
Logged
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Chris Shaida

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2011, 09:13:36 PM »
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 09:15:10 PM by Chris Shaida »
Logged

Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2011, 10:17:04 PM »
they did a tournament in the 30's with an 8-inch cup (maybe it was a 6 inch cup) because the best ball-striker were saying the short game was too important...

guess what

Paul Runyan, the short game wizard won by something like 8 strokes... because all is chip that were running close to the hole where going in



The proper set of tees and golf teacher, not swing teacher would help... the average guy playing around 95 manage his game like an idiot
Logged

jim_lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2011, 10:33:28 PM »
Tom stole my idea!!! Ever since I turned 50 (eighteen years ago), I have said "forget the senior tees. Give me senior cups.". I was only kidding of course.......most of the time.
Logged
"Crusty"  Jim
Freelance Curmudgeon

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2011, 10:47:25 PM »
Village Links of Glen Ellyn has a tournement every year where the 8th hole (a par-3) uses a 12" cup. An ace gets you something like a season's pass. In my group, all single digit players, only one birdie. . .
Logged

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 02:22:18 AM »
Seems kind of comical - a larger hole would probably benefit scratch golfers the most and high handicap golfers the least.

A larger hole does not help you hit your drive in the fairway or avoid water or a bunker on your approach or not duff a chip or hit a putt 10 ft past the hole.

Seems like the easiest solution would be shorter courses with wider fairways along with fewer hazards that penalize the golfer or slow them down.
Logged

Phil_the_Author

Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 05:26:01 AM »
Of what percentage would you say that "one-shot" that brings one back for the next round is a PUTT? I'd say very few. Isn't it usually a shot into the green?

Lower scores neither translates into better players Nor more enjoyment of the game and in no way, as can be seen by those who play the PGA Tour, does it translate into faster play.

The only way to speed up play is to TEACH PEOPLE HOW TO PLAY FASTER!
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 07:49:33 AM by Philip Young »
Logged

Tim Liddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2011, 06:50:42 AM »
Make golf easier? A reflection of our society. No wonder China is kicking our butt.
Logged

Joe Grasty

Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2011, 08:54:52 AM »
Those that don't like the size of the hole can use a string of any given length to indicate if the ball is in the hole.  Making the hole bigger is just silly.
Logged

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: "Make the hole bigger"
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2011, 09:17:24 AM »
didn't Ben Hogan push for automatic 2 putts?.  Might as well just have a driving range with targets....
Logged
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak
Pages: [1] 2
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back