Exotic game sightings in the Sand Hills region

[Ben Sims]

Eric,

This whole thing has moved to the private sector (PM's).  I should've sent my original statement in that manner.  The only person that has stepped out of line is me.

[Don_Mahaffey]

What an interesting read.
CJ slams his neighbors, but then again he didn't really mean it, I guess.
Ben writes off the cuff a bit and JC reighns him is and adds a self-rightous slap or two for good measure.
I'm blaming the weather for the raw nerves.

[Tim Bert]

What an interesting read.
CJ slams his neighbors, but then again he didn't really mean it, I guess.
Ben writes off the cuff a bit and JC reighns him is and adds a self-rightous slap or two for good measure.
I'm blaming the weather for the raw nerves.

Why don't you just stick to growing grass and maintaining golf courses?!?

Maybe the real problem is that all of our emoticons are broken.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Tim,
you can make your own little faces...:>) (happy...funny...smile)  :>(   (sad, unhappy, crying about something on GCA)
Try and see if you can figure this one out    ..|..

cold here, gonna snow tonight in south TX, how's the weather where your at?

[Chris Johnston]

What an interesting read.
CJ slams his neighbors, but then again he didn't really mean it, I guess.
Ben writes off the cuff a bit and JC reighns him is and adds a self-rightous slap or two for good measure.
I'm blaming the weather for the raw nerves.

Don - with all due respect, I didn't slam anyone.  But, you and some others twist words and slam me?  The only neighbor comment I made was in relation to our having less debt.  That was it, and it was in context to justify our considering a second course - its simply easier when you don't have to add to existing borrowings.  

Sure didn't mean to hit a nerve - you can decide for yourself if I really mean it, I guess. 

[Tim Bert]

Don - I'm guessing it is either an upside down cross or someone with a really long middle toe looking down at their foot. This thread has enough issues that I will assume you aren't trying to introduce some evil religious aspect and I will go with the long toe.

It is cold here too but no snow for now. I'm just glad that we in Tennessee haven't had the 80 inches or so that some of my Northeastern friends have received.  How's the coursedealing with the cold south Texas winter?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Chris,
I have no dog in this hunt, but to me, the casual observer, your comments came across as a dig at your neighbors. Had you left out the "unlike some of our neighbors" preface I might think different. And to be completely frank, I think if you were to look at it from the outside you might be a little more willing to at least consider how your comments come across a little differently then you desired.

Has the DR ownership changed hands since the early days or has your group always owned the land/club?

[Chris Johnston]

Chris,
I have no dog in this hunt, but to me, the casual observer, your comments came across as a dig at your neighbors. Had you left out the "unlike some of our neighbors" preface I might think different. And to be completely frank, I think if you were to look at it from the outside you might be a little more willing to at least consider how your comments come across a little differently then you desired.

Has the DR ownership changed hands since the early days or has your group always owned the land/club?

Don - I already stated that, in hindsight, I could have written better so I guess we agree. That said, there was no dig.  You should re-read the post, it wasn't that confusing, and certainly not deserving of high drama in reaction.  The sin, if any, was it could have been better written and I have already acknowledged that.   Fair enough?

We are not the original owner of the club, have been active in the Sand Hills for 15 years, are very experienced in the world of golf, and are value buyers.  We look for value and we hope to add it as well.  

[Don_Mahaffey]

Chris,
I wasn't confused and far from dramatic. Just an honest response to your words.
So for the record, to which neighbor clubs with huge debt loads and pretentious members were you referring?

[Mac Plumart]

In the words of Johnny Carson...this is some weird, wild stuff! (insert smiling emoticon)

First of JC and Eric, thanks.  I appreciate the kind words and gestures.

Ben, thanks for the PM.  I actually read it before I read this thread.

Hmmm...where to start.  Clients vs. friends.  

My two best friends from the Marines, whom I met in the early 1990's, have been in and out of Afghanistan/Iraq since 2001/2002.  I rarely see them, but do communicate via email and the phone.  The last time they were State-side, I popped up to DC to see them.  And they don't golf...they actually laugh at the fact that I golf.  They lift weights, train hard core in the martial arts, shoot, and blow things up.  Golfing is for sissy's in their mind.  So...I ain't inviting them to Sand Hills!

I used the word clients rather than friends to distingush between GCA guys and non-GCA guys.  Poor choice of words...maybe.  I get that.  But many of my clients are my best friends and I've worked with many of them for 15 years or so.  They've been there for the birth of my two children, they visited me in the hospital during my two surgeries, and they've, essentially, taught me the game of golf.  They like to go to play golf as well.  In fact, I just got back from spending the entire day with two of them.  They frequent amazing golf courses too.  In fact, tonight we made plans for Pine Valley this summer (and some other courses you wouldn't believe)...they are buddies with members.  They do things like this often.  Hence, my wanting to repay them for their generosity with the Sand Hills invite.  But, alas, they didn't want to go to Nebraska.  DUMB ASSES!!! (insert smiling emoticon)

But this opened the door for me to invite Eric, meet John and Adam.  And start that thread and get Tony out to Sand Hills.  Like I mentioned before, it all worked out for the best.  I can tease my local friends/clients about being so stupid turning down a Sand Hills invite and I got to meet people whom I hope are friends for life.  Win-win!

And I get the fact that through this internet communication sometimes it is hard to effectively communicate, things might be taken the wrong way, wording isn't correct, frustrations can boil up, things like that.  If you have an issue with me, you can call me, email me, or IM me to talk about it.  I'm not a pussy, I won't run from things like this.  I've been through the ringer in life many times over (high school sports, state championships, Marine Corps, Somalia, martial arts champion, medical mis-diagnosis, double hip replacement before the age of 37, starting two practices/business, dealing with the Great Recession, tech bubble, being a husband and father) and talking about issues on a golf course architecture site is not really going to phase me.  Let's talk about it, work it out, and move on.  If it is a fundamental disagreement that will never be solved.  Fine.  We can agree to disagree and avoid one another.  But I doubt that will be the case.

Anyway...a lab on amphetamines.  Seriously!!  (insert smiley)  Yeah, I kind of get that too.  But, hey, what can I say...I freakin' love the game, I get passionate about talking about it...and maybe in a way that very few do.  But if the shoe fits...wear it!!


Ben...I'll pop you a PM now.

[Chris Johnston]

Chris,
I wasn't confused and far from dramatic. Just an honest response to your words.
So for the record, to which neighbor clubs with huge debt loads and pretentious members were you referring?

Don,  Ok, my friend, enough of you banging on me tonight.  Please re-read the post and ponder.  I'm afraid you ARE confused, I never said any neighboring clubs have huge debt loads or pretentious members.  Here is what I did say:

"Unlike our neighbors, Dismal River has little debt".  The statement was about Dismal having little debt.  This isn't controversial in the least and is a simple statement of fact in context to the "why" a second course?
 ...and...
       "In general, they {our members} are real, not pretentious, and respect the game".  A reference to OUR great members and not a reference in any way to any other club or any other clubs members.  We have a terrific group of members, thats all!

The "how long have you been beating your wife" game is getting a old. 

This was a post about Exotic Game in the Sand Hills.  I responded and tried to give a justification for our consideration, for I sincerely thought some here would enjoy it.  Enough said.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Chris,
OK, I guess I was confused because I thought the phrase "unlike our neighbors" was an attempt to compare and contrast DR to other clubs in the area when in fact it was just a meaningless way for you to start a paragraph. I'll admit, that confused me.

[JC Urbina]

Chris

[Jim Nugent]

Chris or anyone else who knows the area well: is the land for the second course the same as/different from the first course?  I'm real eager to see how different it turns out, compared to the first. 

I think architects like Doak or Devries are MUCH better choices than Tiger.  I feel sure DR will get a far better course that way.  I also bet DR gets a more marketable course.  If Tiger regains his form I'm 100% wrong about the latter. 

[John Kirk]

No big deal as far as I'm concerned.  Butler, get me my night slippers!

[JC Jones]

Chris,
OK, I guess I was confused because I thought the phrase "unlike our neighbors" was an attempt to compare and contrast DR to other clubs in the area when in fact it was just a meaningless way for you to start a paragraph. I'll admit, that confused me.

Speaking of missing emoticons, where is the one of the smileys beating a dead horse

[Adam Clayman]

Jim Nugent,
 If you know about the constellation map, you will understand that the land is varied, to say the least.

So, I suppose the answer to your question has to be yes.

While it all may look the same on the surface, each acre is different.

One of the keys, that perhaps only a critical eye could differentiate, is how well the architect picks his route. I believe Dick Daley was given some insight into picking the better orientation of the corridors, when he was dreaming of his project. The reasons for this preferred orientation, as I recall, has mostly to do with the winter winds. Trying to mitigate any negative impact on the features, being the ideal.

[Lou_Duran]

JC,

Your breadth of knowledge is breathtaking.  Please share your expertise with us now that clicking on the emoticoms above yields nothing.

[Lou_Duran]

The reasons for this preferred orientation, as I recall, has mostly to do with the winter winds. Trying to mitigate any negative impact on the features, being the ideal.

Are you talking about erosion during construction?  Perhaps I am wrong, but I doubt that there is much golf being played in the winter there, and grassed areas shouldn't be that impacted, while bunkers that might reasosonably affect play can be typically covered (don't they do that at Sand Hills?).  If the natural environment is that fragile, maybe a golf course shouldn't go there.  As if routing a course is not complicated enough!

[JC Jones]

JC,

Your breadth of knowledge is breathtaking.  Please share your expertise with us now that clicking on the emoticoms above yields nothing.

A smiley face is nothing more than a colon next to a closed parenthesis.  Here it is with a space in between : )  Here it is with no space

Start there and we can move on to more complex smileys after that.

[JESII]

Speaking of colons, this thread could use a clease

[Lou_Duran]

Thank you Professor Jones.  Now I understand why they pay you the big bucks!

Testing-

[Adam Clayman]

Are you talking about erosion during construction?  Perhaps I am wrong, but I doubt that there is much golf being played in the winter there, and grassed areas shouldn't be that impacted, while bunkers that might reasosonably affect play can be typically covered (don't they do that at Sand Hills?).  If the natural environment is that fragile, maybe a golf course shouldn't go there.  As if routing a course is not complicated enough!

No Lou, I wasn't specifically referring to construction.

I was referring to what Dick Daley has related to me when he was routing his dream course just south of North Platte.

I would categorize the environment as "That fragile". I just think forethought in natures impact is very important on several key levels. One is the playability, the others would be cost related. BTW, I'm not aware if they cover the bunkers at SH, I do know at Ballyneal, Dave shoots the cellulose pulp on a couple of high sandy spots, mitigating the work needed in the spring. As I understand it, that has worked out very well and the course requires much less attention in the spring.

Funny you mention construction though. When the original owners were building the clubhouse at DR, I heard that construction crews would arrive some mornings with their tools completely covered in sand.

Orientation is key in this region. i.e. It never fails that on ether Memorial Day weekend or the 4th of July, a wind nearing 100 mph will whip up, out of nowhere. Newbie campers at Lake McConaughy will often find anything left out over night at the base of the dam.

[John Mayhugh]

What I find interesting is that Mac is often the recipient of shots from you and many of the Max's Lounge crowd yet to my knowledge, only Mayhugh has met him.

This comment is misleading, and that must be unintentional. 

The "Max's Lounge crowd" refers, I assume, to people that post on another website called Max's Lounge.  That group of people includes both Mac Plumart & JC Jones.  If people on Max's were making disparaging comments about or to Mac, I suspect he would have reacted by now.  I had never seen any "shots" at Mac posted there, and if I search the site now I cannot find anything negative about him. 

JC should also have been aware that, in addition to me, at least three other people from that site have met Mac.  After all, he's one of them and another guy has been on a trip with both JC & Mac.  I guess he just forgot.

I realize that there may be some sort of mystery about the Max's Lounge site.  I am just someone who posts there, and am no sort of spokesman.  For me, it's just like being a member of another club, with some of the same people as GCA belonging and some different ones. Some of the discussion topics overlap and some are different, but the tone of the site is no more critical of individuals than GCA is.

[Mac Plumart]

John...

I think most, if not all, of these issues have been worked out.  Ben hammered me for comments I made concerning who I took to Sand Hills.  When I didn't respond, due to my being with clients all day, JC responded.  Ben and I have since IM'd and I feel everything is good on that front.  I respect Ben, admire his service to the country, and wish him nothing but the best on his career aspirations upon the conclusion of his tour of duty. 


JC,

I hope you feel no need to respond to John's post and de-rail a site devoted to golf architecture onto a topic about me and whether people are taking shots at me or not.


If we can all move on...that would be great.