Washington DC Public Golf?

[Tim Pitner]

Can it possibly be as bad as I've read?  Are there any hidden gems?  Courses with good bones that suffer in the conditioning department?  Any new courses of note?

[Carl Nichols]

What have you read?

[Tim Pitner]

Carl,

I've perused some older threads here.  In summary, what I took away was that:  there is a vast disparity between public and private courses (unlike, for example, Denver); most of the more worthwhile publics (e.g., Westfields) are a ways away; Rock Creek is a Flynn and East Potomac is a Travis, but may or may not be worth playing; conditioning is difficult because of the warm summers and cold winters; etc.

[Matt_Ward]

Tim:

The pickings are indeed slim. No doubt it will depend upon your appetite -- or should I say you stomach -- in tolerating what is there. Turf quality is certainly problematic.

The public / private gap in the greater DC area is quite real -- it is not Denver by light years. The quality public skews towards the CCFAD model and likely you will need to venture into the VA countryside -- ditto on the MD front.

The easter shore of MD has a range of courses -- but they are more towards the Myrtle Beach style of architecture -- more fluff than substance.

[Bill_McBride]

Reston and Twin Lakes aren't bad courses in Northern Virginia, but I imagine they are pretty slow.

[Craig Disher]

Tim,
I don't think the public golf here is as bad as you may have heard. Admittedly there is nothing close-in that isn't a horror show.

Rock Creek would be a winner if the management company was willing to raise the fees and put some money into maintenance and tree trimming. It's playable for a month or two but otherwise the fairways are dirt and the greens are covered with weeds.  East Potomac Park and Langston are a little better but if there's any Travis left on EPP, I've never seen it.

Montgomery County runs an array of courses that includes some good ones - Little Bennett (about 35 miles from DC) and Needwood are two I enjoy. Northwest Park has some fine holes and was originally designed - by Ault&Clark - to host the Carling Open.  There are also CCFADs in MD that are fun as well. Worthington Manor is a favorite - mainly because it's a recently built, walkable course.

In VA, I'd also take a look at Laurel Hill near the old Lorton prison.

[J Sadowsky]

Can it possibly be as bad as I've read?  Are there any hidden gems?  Courses with good bones that suffer in the conditioning department?  Any new courses of note?

The most notable new publics are Lake Presidential and 1757 Golf Club, though I have yet to play either course.

[Andy Shulman]

As a longtime DC area resident, I will agree with others that: (1) the better courses are outside the Beltway, often WAY outside the Beltway; (2) many are CCFAD venues; and, (3) conditions can go to hell during a hot, dry summer.  #1 is true, however, to a great extent for the better country clubs such as Woodmont and Congressional in MD and Belle Haven and RTJ in VA.

With regard to the glut of CCFAD courses, thanks to our economic woes, there are reasonable deals to be had at some.  Groupon, for instance, was offering a $49 round (that's pretty reasonable by DC standards) at new CCFAD 1757 Golf Club earlier this week.  GolfNow.com offers discounts at several of the high-end courses, especially thsoe in VA.

As for courses worthy of a visit, I'd put the aforementioned Laurel Hill (which will host the 2013 US Public Links Am), Worthington Manor (regularly used as a US Open local qualifying site) and Whiskey Creek at the top of the list.  Worthington, in particular, has very fast greens, many of which are severely sloped and which will be a hit with many GCA'ers.  While it can be walked - and I've done it - the degree of difficulty on the front nine approaches that at Black Mesa, which I played recently.  While there aren't too many hidden gems or legit bargains, Enterprise (near the Redskins stadium), Poolesville (flat fairways, but some interesting green complexes) and Andrews AFB-West are ones to consider.

P.S. - Forget about East Potomac Park unless you enjoy a 6-hour round!

[Carl Nichols]

Andy:
I generally agree with all of your points, except that I think Westfields is pretty good and wouldn't agree with your assessment of Belle Haven.  With respect to the proximity of the better courses to downtown Washington, while it's true that none of the good public courses are close, they don't seem that much farther than other good public courses in other major cities.  For example, if I left my office by 2pm, I could get to Westfields, 1757, and Lake Presidential in around 30 minutes.   

[Andy Shulman]

Carl - For some reason, our hometown has a bad rep when it comes to public golf.  And DC, with just over 60 square miles of land, isn't going to have nearly as much open space (i.e. - golf courses) in the city proper as, say, Chicago, which has over 200 square miles.  So, I completely agree with you about the proximity of courses in DC v. other cities.

As for Westfields, it's a very good track, but seems to be constricted in a few places - mostly on the back nine - by it's own limited square mileage.  Plus, it's one of the more expensive CCFADs at $100+ on weekends with few deals in sight.

[Andy Hughes]

Craig is of course right about most everything. 

However "I don't think the public golf here is as bad as you may have heard. Admittedly there is nothing close-in that isn't a horror show."  If Glenn Dale (George Cobb) qualifies as close in then it is one that is not a horror show. Yes, a couple of head-scratchers but there are a number of good holes and a good walking course. And surprisingly good greens. I always enjoy it.

The U of MD course (also Cobb) I always wish was just a little better than it is. It feels like it ought to be better than it is--can never explain it well but so many holes seem they are on the verge of being very good and then aren't.  Hole #2 continues to disappoint me--it could be great and instead is just tough.

Craig, I have to confess--I adore Rock Creek.  Can you imagine how much fun that course could be? What a neat beginning holes 1,2 and 3 could be, and 3 is sneaky good already. Yes, it surely is primitive at this time in many ways, and sure 15 and 16 are the two most narrow holes I have ever seen back-to-back, but I see such incredibly good bones and some really potentially outstanding holes.

[Craig Disher]

Andy,
Don't get me wrong. I too love Rock Creek. With greens like this, it's obvious there is much potential.



But it's maddening to see so little effort put into maintenance. The greens fees are ridiculous and probably barely support a pro and a couple of part-time mowers. If you consider what Baltimore has done with Mount Pleasant GC it seems that just a modest increase in fees and a modest upgrade in course conditions would benefit everyone.

Have you played UMD since the Bill Love renovation?

[Andy Hughes]

Ha! Thanks for the picture Craig.  I still have not found the gumption to let 'er rip at that one, but maybe one of these days.  Rock Creek is on my short list of things to fund after I win the lottery. It's a bit maddening that it sits there in its current state, but miraculous that I still enjoy a round there. I have never been to Mt Pleasant; I'll have to give it a go this year.

I played UMD several months ago. My momma told me if I didn't have anything nice to say.....But as long as you asked    I continue to believe that a decent amount of money was spent and the holes were not appreciably improved.  #2 continues to be tough but not great, #6 could easily be a very good hole and still isn't etc.
But then, in all sincerity, what do I really know vs. Bill Love?

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

   I regret that I never made it to Rock Creek.  Has anyone mentions PD Dye or Cross Creek?  If I was headed towards PG county I would play U of MD and Glen Dale.  U of MD has had some attention lately and hosted the Nationwide Tour recently.  It's a good golf course and I always thought the par 3's were strong.   Glen Dale is probably the best example of a Family owned course you can find.  They are very friendly, have good prices and their long time Superintendent knows how to keep the poa greens.  I think that would be a nice 36 hole day.

[Roger Wolfe]

Laurel Hill just South in Lorton is supposed to be wonderful.  They are hosting the pub links in a few years.  If your "dc area" has a 60 mile radius there are some wonderful courses.  I ran a big CCFAD in the late 90s and left the area in 2004 so I cannot speak to current conditions but my favorites were Augustine, Bull Run, Swan Point, Mattaponi Springs.  Renditions is a hoot and my heart belongs to Poolesville and Glenn Dale.  Rock Creek and Hain's Point are fine if you're just trying to kill an afternoon.

[Sean_A]

I think Westfields is the best public course I encountered around the very greater DC area, but its a bit pricey for what it is.  Also, I thought the course looked like it would get wet very easily and I wouldn't go out there after rain. 

Rasberry Falls out in Leesburg Boondocks has a boring front nine and good back nine....

Ciao

[Rich Brittingham]

All that being said above..... I'll meet any of you anytime for a round on any of these overpriced CCFAD's or run down muni's!
Golf-wise, I luckily I live in the VA suburbs, close proximity to plenty of courses and while I eventualy sour on every course here after enough times out, the quantity is more then enought to make up for it.
Twin Lakes is best walking golfer's deal in DC  $48 to walk on the weekends and it is a fantastic track.

[J Sadowsky]

   I regret that I never made it to Rock Creek.  Has anyone mentions PD Dye or Cross Creek?  If I was headed towards PG county I would play U of MD and Glen Dale.  U of MD has had some attention lately and hosted the Nationwide Tour recently.  It's a good golf course and I always thought the par 3's were strong.   Glen Dale is probably the best example of a Family owned course you can find.  They are very friendly, have good prices and their long time Superintendent knows how to keep the poa greens.  I think that would be a nice 36 hole day.

PB Dye is nice but "over the top" and extremely difficult.  Friends do not let friends play Cross Creek. 

[Mike Tanner]

I was working as an assistant manager for a seafood restaurant chain and living in the Maryland suburbs of DC (could see Cole Fieldhouse at UM from my apartment balcony) when I took up the game in the late 1970s. All of the company's store managers in the district and the DM played, so it seemed like the thing to do.

I have fond memories of playing at Glenn Dale—pretty easy to walk, well-conditioned and reasonably priced.

[Jerry Kluger]

I was a member at Indian Spring CC at the time that it closed and tried playing the public courses and I learned that the quality was lacking and the pricing was all wrong.  I live in Montgomery County but residents do not get a break at the county owned courses and they do not have a junior rate on the weekends.  So playing Falls Road, which is certainly no gem, was $100 for my son and I to walk.  That was the low end of the pricing scale and I didn't see a vast improvement in quality for the substantial price increase of the upscales.  Some of the courses did offer annual memberships but again it was no bargain, especially for the two of us.  The fact is that the private clubs are offering no initiation fees with dues of around $500 per month.  For two of us playing that is not overly expensive plus the pace of play is dramatically better than at most of the public courses I've played. 

[Andy Hughes]

I regret that I never made it to Rock Creek.  Has anyone mentions PD Dye or Cross Creek?

Sean, good call on PB Dye. I haven't been there in 4-5 years and need to head back soon--some real holes of interest. What does Justin know? 

I imagine Rock Creek will be around the next time you are in town--just don't make a special trip or visit as it takes a, um, special soul to enjoy it.

Jerry, I am slowly starting to see your logic--it does feel like highway robbery to pay the current Falls Road fees for Falls Road.  Had my 6 year old out with me to Sligo this weekend--now that is my kind of green fee. Sligo was Indian Spring way back in the day, wasn't it? Do you know if the holes were the same or not?

[Jerry Kluger]

Andy: My understanding is that Sligo is not the old Indian Spring, which BTW, was a Donald Ross course which is noted in Brad Klein's book.

[Andy Hughes]

Ahhh, the location next to Blair High School--I thought that was a different course.  Not sure where I heard that about Sligo.

[Andy Hughes]

Jerry, found this online: "what's left of the Argyle Golf Course is now the Public MNCPPC - Sligo Golf Course) and Indian Spring Country Club (what's left of Indian Spring is now the YMCA property) "

I got Argyle and Indian Spring mixed up.

[Roger Wolfe]

I forgot Sligo Creek and Falls Road.  I remember changing clothes in my RX-7 on the beltway racing to Sligo to play nine.  Falls Road is a wonderful muni, too.  I have fond memories of both.