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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2011, 09:07:42 AM »
Let me ask a simple question: If you owned one of these golf courses would you be happy with the result?  I would say: Absolutely not! I certainly wouldn't want to be a member of one of those courses and play those holes all the time and if they are public courses I could not see very much repeat business.  I understand that DM worked with JN on MV but some of his other designs are just a joke.  Aberdeen in Boynton Beach, Florida is an example of everything wrong in a golf course.  He built a course that 95% of the residents simply could not play so they had to spend a ton of money redoing whatever they could but it is still far too difficult for most members. 

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2011, 09:08:13 AM »
Tom -

I have not played a Muirhead course, so have no opinions about the weight he gave (or not) to shot values. Based on pictures I've seen, I probably agree that his design work is about doing something different just to be different.

By contrast, his book on the Old Course (co-authored with Tip Anderson) is really good, mostly because of his descriptions of the shot values the course affords. The book is organized as a shot by shot, hole by hole tour. As an architectural study, it is as good as it gets. Recommended highly.

Bob  

  

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2011, 12:20:06 PM »
I'm all for originality, but his inpirations are a bit too obvious and forced for my taste.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mark McKeever

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2011, 01:50:05 PM »
In all honesty, that green complex on hole 4 looks pretty neat if you ask me.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2011, 06:15:49 PM »
Fellows,

I admit what many have said...there's a perverse, revolt against the mundane in an individual Muirhead hole and such divergent styles are needed in all the Arts (of which architecture and GCA are a tribe).

But for 18 holes...Stone Harbor in south jersey is a BAD golf course, Farmington woods is a BAD golf course, Oronoque is a BAD golf course.

i think Muirhead could have been a Wallace Stevens-like poet of GCA, imagination on a thin leash, but instead he is like Guillaume Apollinaire, making a poem about Paris in the shape of the Eiffel Tower, that no one truly reads, but looks at.

By zealously, cravenly needing to mix every element of hazard into a hole presentation, water, sand, distinct, unnatural transitions and odd green shapes he ends up making a visually interesting thing whose elements have no playing value whatsoever.  it's wonderful to look at on a thread like this or in a golf calendar or in an architectural history book on landscape architecture - but who really gets any satisfaction once the ball has plunked in the water or come to rest next to the grass eye in the St. George and the Dragon thing.

I also note that many Muirhead pictures show Par 3s and/or holes with water.  The guy was absolutely lost when you had to play an everyday ol' fairway shot or wish to play a 250 drive down left center.

Still, he's a significant architect for this style.  i'm glad he lived and designed what he did.  I just have no desire to go one mile out of my way to play a round on his courses, no less go to Japan.

***I think he influenced Nicklaus' 1980-1995 era of design for the worse, with their shared work at Muirfield Village.  In an inchoate sense, I don't think Jack ever broke free from that influence and it tended to posit Jack into high-commercial "signature" design styles
that haven't aged too well***

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Matt Day

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2011, 08:09:06 PM »
Let me ask a simple question: If you owned one of these golf courses would you be happy with the result?  I would say: Absolutely not! I certainly wouldn't want to be a member of one of those courses and play those holes all the time and if they are public courses I could not see very much repeat business.  I understand that DM worked with JN on MV but some of his other designs are just a joke.  Aberdeen in Boynton Beach, Florida is an example of everything wrong in a golf course.  He built a course that 95% of the residents simply could not play so they had to spend a ton of money redoing whatever they could but it is still far too difficult for most members. 
You would think that owners of the King Arthur Golf Club may have a heads up that it was going to be a medieval themed golf course, and were happy for that to happen?

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2011, 10:05:06 PM »
Tim, his course in southern Vermont, Haystack, has none of the madness, either.  The one five minutes from mi casa, River Oaks (New York) has a bit of tumble, but no symbolism.

Gary, which course do you capture in your photos?
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2011, 10:05:39 PM »
Jim Engh a calmer, modern-day Muirhead...discuss
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2011, 10:23:30 PM »
I play a couple of Desmond Muirhead designs in Thailand on a fairly regular basis.

One is quite different, 19 holes, heavily manufactured, loads of elevation, a couple of par6's, everything but symoblism.

The other is just a very well routed, solid golf course, with 4 very good par 3's.

Both were built roughly around the same time !


Dave Falkner

Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2011, 10:52:52 PM »
that par three has 6 hr round written all over it

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Classic Desmond Muirhead Golf Hole
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2011, 01:08:27 AM »
that par three has 6 hr round written all over it
Dave
If you look up some reviews on the course, you will find that its normal for golfers to stop halfway for lunch.

So make it 7 hours.

But thats life on a lot of courses in the Far East :)