[Duncan Cheslett]

I was hitting some balls on a local driving range earlier today and was approached by a bloke with a clipboard. It turned out that he was a PGA pro offering free taster lessons. He spent ten minutes adjusting my grip and set-up and we chatted.

He had been the pro at a local club for twenty-odd years before being ousted last year in favour of some golf management company who had undercut him on his retainer. It seems the club decided that they couldn't afford to keep him on.

Admittedly, he probably wasn't the most objective witness, but he did make a good case for the idea that the era of the traditional club professional may be coming to an end, as clubs face increasing financial pressure, and equipment sales move online.

If he's right I think it would be rather sad.  So is he right? Is having a pro at every club sustainable?

I tell you, out of work pros hustling for business at driving ranges is a pretty pathetic sight...

[Sean_A]

Duncan

I am not trying to get harsh about club pros, but I often wonder what their worth is in the UK.  It seems to me club pros in the States do more to make themselves at least somewhat necessary.  In the UK they more or less sit behind a counter unless giving lessons.  Unless the membership of the club is very big on lessons (is there such a club in the UK?) then its a bit of money to spend on a guy for the comfort of a relatively low percentage of members.  It wasn't long ago when our pro was retiring that I suggested not hiring another.  Lessons can be had at plenty places - let them pay the retainer.  I was laughed at, but perhaps these harsh times will make folks take a closer look.  My advice for pros is to get much more active in club life and help out/make suggestions. Its a lot harder to sack a guy who is making an effort and is well liked. 

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Duncan - There are too many good players these days, you need to be +3 really to have a chance of earning money by playing golf. The Internet has brought golf equipment to the masses and a fraction over trade price so the club pro has little chance of earning money on selling golf clubs, fortunately balls are not so cheap online because of postage and the pro has the club logo he can endorse to clothing and thats his, internet firm can get that.... a few years ago he had the planners but in came the GPS mappers and nicked his dosh, next up the apps will on phones for zero and the skycaddies will be redundant...so theres not to earn from the shop. Pro's need to teach and teach more, I think some at £30 per hour they are a bit toppy... £10 for 30 minutes would be a winner perhaps, but its tough for pro's and I dont think the futire is very bright, clubs in finiancial trouble (and thats most) find it hard to generate new business and extra incomes survival and the way forward is often staff reduction or staff re-organisation which amounts to the same in the end. It may be a case of the pro dumped or a manager dumped with the pro hooking up his jobs.

[Jon Wiggett]

Adrian is probably correct in that the future for the pro will almost certainly be moving more into management. The big advantage that a pro offers in this area from the club's point of view is high presence at low cost. The sticking point for many clubs and pros will be that most pros like a certain amount of independence where as many committees like to micro manage to much.

Sean,

as you are aware, the UK golf culture is quite different to that in the US and I for one would not want to end up with an American style model. Had you succeeded in eliminating the Pro how would you have replaced him whilst still providing equipment sales, GF collection, competition fees, info center, etc with out incurring costs?

Jon

[D_Malley]

The Internet has brought golf equipment to the masses and a fraction of trade price so the club pro has little chance of earning money on selling golf clubs,

I find this comment interesting

where on the internet can i buy new equipment at a fraction of the price?

i guess maybe ebay, but i know alot of people get scammed there, and what happens if you need warranty repairs.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Typo - meant to be over not of. corrected now.

[Sean_A]

Jon

I too much prefer the UK model, but I admire American club pros much more - in general.  Anybody could replace what the pro does in the UK or USA (sell clothes, golf equipment, replace the odd grip/shaft, take bookings, sign in vistors/guest and handle sign sheets/money for comps) if we accept that lessons can be had elsewhere if only a small percentage of members use his services.  However, as I said before, the US pros tend to get stuck in much more and will help organize/run events or individual requests of members.  Pros need to do this sort of stuff at many places because their services are replaceable by less qualified folks.   I think if UK pros want to habg around longer they have to find a way to be more valuable than any assistant secretary.  That means doing some mundane work behind a desk.

Ciao

[Andrew Bertram]

The role and model of the "Traditional Club Pro" has changed a lot and there are a significant number of Club pros still in stuck in the past.


The trend in the US in the late 90's through to a couple of years ago was to move to "Director of Golf" with the Club running the operation, this has certainly started to reverse as Clubs are starting to realsie what they have lost. The Club Pro is the "public face" of the Club.

In Australia the trend has followed the US pretty closely with the trend slowly starting to move back to traditional Club Professional roles.
In a lot of cases Clubs see dollar signs and think they can make good money out of the operation and when they then return a loss or struggle to cover costs they realise they have not figured in how valuable a good Professional can be.

We have a reasonable size operation with 8 staff working for me, including 6 PGA members,  and we run everything to do with golf for the Club including all competition, handicapping, carts, range, coaching, pennant as well as retail. Members tend to come to us for any queries rather than the club office as we are always here.
I am also involved pretty heavily on match and greens.

In the sand belt only RM and Yarra have a traditional set up while the others run it themselves. The clubs running it themselves have the view that the Golf Shop is where members register for golf and they set it up accordingly. The smaller clubs doing this quickly realise that you cannot replace a Head pro who is at the club for 60 hours a week with an employed pro who is on 38 hours.

Yarra did run the shop when I came in 7 years ago and the annual retail turnover was 20% of what it is now and our members are pretty internet savvy yet we lose very few sales to off course or the net.  

For some of the bigger clubs such as Royal Sydney with 3500 members I certainly see the sense in running it in house, they have 32 staff on the golf shop books and at least 8 staff always rostered on.  

The PGA as a body need to be very aware when turning out newly qualified professionals that they need to be highly skilled in a wide range of managerial skills who make it their role to be involved in every aspect of the club and it's membership.




      

[jeffwarne]

Jon

I too much prefer the UK model, but I admire American club pros much more - in general.  Anybody could replace what the pro does in the UK or USA (sell clothes, golf equipment, replace the odd grip/shaft, take bookings, sign in vistors/guest and handle sign sheets/money for comps) if we accept that lessons can be had elsewhere if only a small percentage of members use his services.  However, as I said before, the US pros tend to get stuck in much more and will help organize/run events or individual requests of members.  Pros need to do this sort of stuff at many places because their services are replaceable by less qualified folks.   I think if UK pros want to habg around longer they have to find a way to be more valuable than any assistant secretary.  That means doing some mundane work behind a desk.

Ciao

Well Sean I can't speak for UK pros but I'd say the average US pro is educated to be replaceable.
If he falls for the siren song of "management and deskwork" he becomes just another suit like so many tools working for management companies.
A professional who excels at playing, teaching, and clubfitting,(and does all three often) as well as running events can seperate himself and endear himself to the members.
Too many pros cop out and neglect playing and teaching, the cornerstones of the game. In the MET Section, most pros are still involved in the game, making them less succeptible to the death trap of a management company.
Yet amazingly, the PGA continues to allow more nonplayers and nonteachers matriculate through their programs-thus setting them up for failure and creating an imbalance of supply and demand.

[Sean_A]

Jeff

Yes, if the pro doesn't want to help manage a club, he has to find a way to make his expert services (teaching/equipment repair) very valuable to the general member.  I think in these times of throw away culture and lessons being offered everywhere, its harder for pros to distinguish themselves.  If his expert services are not valued, the pro better have other skills a club wants.  I don't see that sort of get up and go with a great many UK pros, but one of my pros, Mike Bennett, is a huge asset to the club and I think the club would lose a lot if he walked - but he is the exception to the rule.  Regardless, if there is a pro at my club I will support him so long as he doesn't rip me off.  I don't mind paying a bit extra for the face to face and selling of the items (a lost art it seems).  But that is more down to me being too lay to shop around as I tend to buy out of need rather than desire.  Believe it or not, I don't like shopping for golf shit.

Ciao 

[Matt_Ward]

With any profession if you don't create a NEED you then become expendable.

I do agree with Jeff in that too many pros I have seen have become the general car salesman type guy / mgmt guy in a suit for the lack of a better description. The playing component is a critical area and one when combined with a teaching side can really make a difference. A pro who can help improve others games while still demonstrating the capacity to play the game too -- is something a smart club will seek to retain and attract when openings happen.

[Jon Wiggett]

Jon

I too much prefer the UK model, but I admire American club pros much more - in general.  Anybody could replace what the pro does in the UK or USA (sell clothes, golf equipment, replace the odd grip/shaft, take bookings, sign in vistors/guest and handle sign sheets/money for comps) if we accept that lessons can be had elsewhere if only a small percentage of members use his services.  However, as I said before, the US pros tend to get stuck in much more and will help organize/run events or individual requests of members.  Pros need to do this sort of stuff at many places because their services are replaceable by less qualified folks.   I think if UK pros want to habg around longer they have to find a way to be more valuable than any assistant secretary.  That means doing some mundane work behind a desk.

Ciao

Yes Sean, you can replace a pro for many of the functions he preforms with the secretary's assistant but you fail to grasp or answer the important question of how will you finance it! Many pros do not recieve retainers and most of those that do are not getting high figures. So taking that most pro shops are manned from 9am to 6pm 7 days a week and 12 months a year how do you pay some one to do this and save money?

Jon

[John Kavanaugh]

Tick tock, tick tock, I am sure as soon as the affordable golf crowd figures out that the pro costs them the price of their single after round beer he will be out the door with every other luxury tied to the sport.

My personal opinion is that it is impossible to have a great private club without a strong pro.

[Matt_Ward]

John:

Interesting qualifier -- "great private club without a strong pro."

What about the other categories ?

I know of plenty that have moved beyond such a connection.

[Scott Warren]

I think the cost of lessons is something that needs to be addressed.

My club's pros charge AU$55/30mins (about 37 pounds for the UK fellas).

While I'd love to improve my game, I'd want to be having a lesson every 2-3 weeks and that just isn't an investment I could make. At $30 - still a dollar a minute! - I'd sign up today for a series of lessons.

[Mike_Young]

I think Jeff W and JK are both right....
I don't know how many good pro jobs are in the US right now but I would wager it is around 20% of the 17000 courses....
Jeff says it about as well as it can be said....
The problem I see with all of the golf business is "perceived expertise" and yes it can start with architects....the good pros will be fine...but the others will have to find something else....it's all down to making it now and there is no room for not getting it done....

[Matt Day]

I think the cost of lessons is something that needs to be addressed.

My club's pros charge AU$55/30mins (about 37 pounds for the UK fellas).

While I'd love to improve my game, I'd want to be having a lesson every 2-3 weeks and that just isn't an investment I could make. At $30 - still a dollar a minute! - I'd sign up today for a series of lessons.

Scott
We offer six lessons for the price of five, ask your pro if he could a deal like that? In regards to the cost its tricky because at $30 for 30 minutes many teaching professionals wouldn't be able to survive.

I have 8 teaching professionals working for me at a very busy public course with an 80 bay range, but only three of those would possibly survive on lesson income alone. The rate charged by the pro usually doesn't all go to him, a percentage will go to the owner/lessee as a spilt.

[John Kavanaugh]

John:

Interesting qualifier -- "great private club without a strong pro."

What about the other categories ?

I know of plenty that have moved beyond such a connection.

After being treated like crap at Pacific Dunes by the pro staff and it not hurting my experience I am not sure of the value of a pro at a public course.  

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Interesting. I never doubted the value of the head pro. I do think most american clubs can get by just fine on one or two ass pros though. I did not know the head pro in the UK brought so little to the table.

[Padraig Dooley]

Interesting. I never doubted the value of the head pro. I do think most american clubs can get by just fine on one or two ass pros though. I did not know the head pro in the UK brought so little to the table.

He doesn't.

[Padraig Dooley]

I think the cost of lessons is something that needs to be addressed.

My club's pros charge AU$55/30mins (about 37 pounds for the UK fellas).

While I'd love to improve my game, I'd want to be having a lesson every 2-3 weeks and that just isn't an investment I could make. At $30 - still a dollar a minute! - I'd sign up today for a series of lessons.

Scott, if you search you should be able to find a good teaching pro who offers a layered pricing structure. The days of giving only 30 minute lessons are passing. e.g. a group with six in it with the session lasting 60 minutes with the lesson costing 1/3 of the 30 minute price is a better value way to learn.

[Scott Warren]

Thanks Padraig. I'm inclined to agree - I'd rather pay $20 for an hour shared with five others and for the same hour's work the pro gets $10 more than if he conducted two private lessons in that hour...

[Mark Chaplin]

We are lucky at Deal as we have one of the finest club pros in the land in Andrew Reynolds, he can still play - only club pro to qualify for last years British Seniors, shot 66 at Turnberry in the Seniors two or three years ago, England A squad coach, great story and joke teller, trainer of future head pros and all round decent chap. He probably makes a few bob and it is a very good all round relationship.

[Brian Marion]

Just like there are different levels of courses and clubs, there are different levels of club pros.

A good one is worth his weight in gold and really keeps the place running and the membership/regulars happy and wanting to return. I define a good pro as a people person who has a deep rooted love of the game, the personalities surrounding it and an understanding of what it takes to play.

A bad one is like any other person who is in the wrong profession.

[jeffwarne]

We are lucky at Deal as we have one of the finest club pros in the land in Andrew Reynolds, he can still play - only club pro to qualify for last years British Seniors, shot 66 at Turnberry in the Seniors two or three years ago, England A squad coach, great story and joke teller, trainer of future head pros and all round decent chap. He may make a few bob but it is a very good all round relationship.

Any reason that last sentence couldn't read "He makes a few bob and it's a good all around relationship"

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