1 - Fair enough...not something I'm interested in debating. I consider Wayne a friend, and I respect what you're doing on this topic so I'd rather stay out of those details.
I understand. I just wanted to put it on the record that I disagree with you on this without getting into it.
2 - I guess you're right, I remember it being referenced at some point but can't remember the setting.
3 - I was not trying to paint an all or nothing scenario. As you know, I think the basic routing work went on in late summer and fall of 1910 prior to the cor land purchase. I also thin it's highly likely during CBM's visit they sketched some ideas of how the holes should flow. His mention of getting a little more land near the clubhouse makes that case for me. While I don't know for certain where that "little more land" is, the three acres behind the clubhouse and the three additional acres menioned in the April Board minutes are not the same because they obviously would have figured out in the meantme that the three acres of railroad land behind the clubhouse were not for sale. My suspicion is that the 3 acres referred to in April were just a more accurate remeasure of what they were buying once they had their course completely planned out...whether it was acreage devoted to roadspace or not, I think they had the general idea of buying 120 acres, subtracted 3 because of the leased railroad land and by the time they worked out the course it was 120 acrss plus the 3 of railroad land.
We may be saying the same thing here. I agree with the part of your post I underlined. I agree that there are two different "three acres;" the three acres RR land and then three acres when the finally got around to doing an accurate measure of what they measure.
But when Lesley referred to "acquiring three acres additional" in April, I assume he was still talking about the RR land. Here is what he reportedly wrote:
On April 6th Mr. Macdonald and Mr. Whigham came over and spent the day on the ground, and after looking over the various plans, and the ground itself, decided that if we would lay it out according to the plan they approved, which is submitted here-with, that it would result not only in a first class course, but that the last seven holes would be equal to any inland course in the world. In order to accomplish this, it will be necessary to acquire 3 acres additional.I may be wrong, but I think he means that in order to do what CBM wants us to do, we need to add the three acres near the clubhouse. And the same day the board reportedly approved the purchase of "
about three acres additional to cost about $7500.00." I think this was the RR land, but they ended up leasing it, not purchasing it.
Should be easy enough to determined by looking at the purchases. I can't remember if they ever actually paid $7500 for the additional three acres that we think was due to a more accurate measurement. What did they end up paying for the 120 acres? It wasn't $92.5K (85k+7.5k), was it? I don't remember offhand.
4 - Nobody is denying that CBM's fingerprints are all over the course, even Mike's position is just to take the opposite of your's and Pat's. You guys are suggesting that because they tried to build a handful of templates AND CBM was involved in some capacity it means CBM was calling the shots. That's as extreme as Mike suggesting that if Wilson had seen a double plateau somewhere else, that might have been his inspiration. Both arguments are seriously flawed.
I disagree with your statement that no one is denying CBM's extensive influence. The Merionettes have been denying that CBM's fingerprints are on the course for years. While it is foolish for them to continue to do so, they don't seem to have stopped. Look at Mike's ridiculous speculation regarding "multi-teir greens" and his lame attempts to distance Merion's Road hole from CBM.
Perhaps we are still caught up on the "calling the shots" terminology. Let me see if I can find some middle ground.
CBM and HJW didn't work for Merion. They did not build the course for Merion. They were expert advisors, and advised Merion on what land to acquire and how to create a first class course on that land.
Merion could accept or reject CBM's and HJW's advice as Merion saw fit. So in a very real sense it was Merion who ultimately "called the shots" in that they they were not formally bound in any way to follow the expert advice of CBM and HJW.
This is why in his letter CBM wrote "your course," "your committee," and the land "you propose" buying. It was not CBM's course and he wasn't going to build them their course and he wasn't going to grow grass for them. He was an expert advisor. He would tell them how, but they would ultimately build it themselves.
That said, CBM and HJW were among the foremost experts on this sort of thing, and had just pioneered a rather novel approach to creating first class golf courses. And Merion recognized the value of CBM's and HJW's expert advice and acted accordingly. In other words, they listened to CBM and HJW for the same reason they brought in CBM and HJW in the first place, and the same reason they traveled to NGLA to work on the layout plan, and the same reason that the had CBM and HJW come back down to Merion to choose the final plan. Merion wanted the best and these guys were the best. They were the foremost authorities and Merion had great respect for this and
followed their advice. That is why CBM's fingerprints all over the course. Because Merion was deferring to their authority on these matters. That is all I mean when I say that CBM and HJW were calling the shots. Merion recognized them as authorities on these matters and deferred to their opinion. Just like patients/clients follow advice from their doctors and lawyers.
The source documents clearly suggest that the committee spent time learning about these template holes...that alone is almost definitely the inspiration for what they put in the Board Approved Plan AND what they initially put in the ground. That does not imply calling the shots!
They did spend time learning about the concepts from CBM. Wilson would have needed to have some understanding of these concepts to build his versions of the holes. But if he was only was interested in the general concepts he could have simply read Whigham's Scribner's Article and CBM's Outing article. Why go all the way to NGLA and burden CBM for two days when they just could have read a few articles?
Hugh Wilson told us that he didn't just learn concepts, he also learned
how to apply those concepts at Merion. This is where I think CBM was providing direct influence over the design. Remember how CBM needed a contour map back in June? Well they had a contour map by March and were at NGLA with Charles Macdonald, who had already been over their land! I think it unreasonable to believe they weren't working on how CBM's concepts could specifically apply at Merion. Especially given what Hugh and Alan Wilson wrote.
Your position and that of others seems to artificially bifurcate what happened at NGLA from what happened after NGLA. I think it makes more sense to read it as a continuation of a process. They were working on the plan at NGLA and when they got back, based on what they had done at NGLA, they rearranged the course (the routing) and came up with five different plans (the details and/or alternatives.) In other words I don't think it reasonable to believe that "rearranging the course" had nothing to do with the planning that went on at NGLA. Likewise regarding the five plans. Do you really suppose that they hadn't come up with at least some of this stuff at NGLA, do you?
But the kicker for me is that Merion brought them back to the site
to again go over the land. If CBM was only teaching them principles, then his job was done at NGLA and there was no need to go over the land for a second time. Why would they again go down to Merion and again go over the land and the various potential options if they had not been involved in the planning up to that point? And, by itself, isn't going over the land and various alternatives and choosing the final plan an extremely integral part of the planning process?
Likewise, with regard to the first letter, if CBM and HJW were NOT involved in the specifically locating the holes on the property, then
why bring up the need for contour map? For what would they have used a contour map, except to see whether the holes they had in mind would actually fit? And how would CBM have ven estimated what was possible had he not considered if holes would fit? If he hadn't considered how the holes would fit, then at what was he looking when he was wandering over the land? And how did he know they would need more land by the clubhouse?
In both instances there is more than just general advice or principles, there is strong indication that CBM was teaching them what to do with their land.
5 - I forget what I said to diminish/discount CBM's efforts. I figure the committee spent their time at NGLA and back at Merion looking at and learning about the strategies and the construction techniques of a good number of template type holes...I also figure they would have their contour map with them and the topic would have been specifically where these holes could potentially go on the property.
I think what you said was at NGLA they were studying principles. I agree with this but note that they were also learning how to apply those principles to their land. I think that both Hugh and Alan indicate that they were working applying these principles to Merion's natural conditions. In other words, they were working on the layout plan and how to create the holes planned.
6 - What does it say?
"Mr. Whigham estimated that the cost of putting the ground into condition for play would be $25,000.00, and the introduction of water $5000.00, making a very liberal estimate . . .." 7 - I think they were friendly with at least a coupleof the committee members or other Merion members and were doing alot of things (for free) in alot of places to help develop the game of golf in the States...why wouldn't they come in to provide the benefit of their experiences? To suggest that Merion woulf have asked them to design their golf course and never once mention that fact is a much more eggregious claim IMO!
I think you are speculating as to whether they were friends or not at this point (although I think some of them may have become friends at some point.)
I also think you are putting this in a modern context. It doesn't surprise me that they didn't refer to CBM as "the designer" or "architect" of Merion, and I don't think it was a slight. At the time they didn't call Wilson or anyone else the "designer" or "architect" either. It wasn't really they way they described such things. I think CBM/HJW advised them how to build the course, but to Merion creating the course was the really big deal. While CBM was rapidly changing this, designing golf courses hadn't yet become appreciated in the way we appreciate it. That is why this early stuff is so difficult to figure out.
8 - When I said the Road Hole, I believe I meant the Road Bunker, I'll go check and edit, but if it's enlarged and shifted to the left that's clearly a reduction of the imitation of the original, no? I do agree that your handful of different images of this hole over the last couple weeks has certainly proved to me that a real effort at a Road Hole was made...but I also think it's highly possible for someone to explain the key features to me on paper and then show them to me on the ground the next day an let me get after it...it is very possible.
I think that the 1924 photo shows the expanded bunker and it still looks like a road hole to me.
I also think here you may be trying to trump what is
likely with what is "possible."
- Let's assume it was "possible" to explain the road hole to to a self described novice, show it to them then next day, and then have them get at it.
- Wasn't it at least as "possible" that CBM explained the road hole to them, show his Road Hole to them then next day,
showed them on a contour map where to put theirs, then went there to the and make sure they got it right and that it was going to work, and
then told them to get at it?
It seems reasonable to me to think that CBM played a role in placing these holes. I'll go further and say it seems unreasonable to think that he did not play a role in placing these holes.