David, Perhaps a better question is what do you think the dot next to the words Good Ground mean on this map?
While they are not very accurately placed on that map, I think they are RR stations.
And then, if you were looking at a map similar to that one and reading the passage that says the inlet between Good Ground and Shinnecock Station what would ever make you go all the way to Shinnecock Hills Station before looking a half mile North?
I don't think that article was based on a very inaccurate map that doesn't even show the inlet in question, so I am not sure why I would look to such a map to understand it. Why not look to the land itself? Also, I think it odd that your main criticism is that we are trying to read too much specificity into a general description, yet at the same time you seem to be reading things into the description of the location of the inlet.
- It doesn't say "Good Ground Station." It says Good Ground. We are not sure where exactly "Good Ground" began and ended, but at least some reports put the canal at Good Ground.
- It doesn't say that the inlet was at the exact middle of the distance between Good Ground and Shinnecock Station. It says it was between Good Ground and Shinnecock Station.
- You wouldn't have to go all the way to the Station. The inlet begins about 3/4 of a mile before the station, and I think it would have been visible from further still.
- While it was all technically Southampton, it seems the area west of the canal was generally referred to as Good Ground and the area east of the Canal was considered to be Shinnecock Hills/Southampton with the Canal acting as a dividing line. (Although the Canal connects Peconic Bay with Shinnecock Bay, I have never seen the Canal as described as being in Shinnecock Hills, only in Good Ground and/or Canoe Place.)
I know this was covered earlier in this thread, but regarding that snippet from October I think if we could get on the same page it would only help move Mike that way also. How close is the western part of teh golf course up on Sebonac Neck to the inlet into Cold Spring Pond? And how close is the southern part of the golf course to the railroad tracks? Aren't they both a considerable distance to be considered relevant landmarks?
As usual Mike's answers to these questions are misleading. He admits that the description was of a larger area than just the golf course, but then only measures from the golf course. And he measures all the way to the opening of the inlet at its far western point!
A more realistic answer is that it is difficult to say how far the course was from the "inlet" without knowing what was meant by the inlet, but whatever measure is used I have trouble understanding why it wouldn't be from Sebonack Neck, which was the land CBM was first considering. According the the 1907 plan, the developer owned the narrow strip of extending from Sebonac Neck all the way to the inlet! Even if we don't consider this strip to have been part of Sebonac Neck, the strip to the opening of the inlet is only about 3/4 of a mile. If we exclude the strip and measure to the part of marked "Cold Spring Bay Inlet" on the 1907 map, then it is less than 1/2 mile to where the body of water narrows significantly.
It is speculative on my part, but to me that article reads as if whoever came up with the description (probably whoever fed the information to the reporter) didn't really know what to call the body of water we call Cold Spring harbor/bay/pond/inlet. Otherwise why not just call it what it is? This is the main sticking point I have with believing the article referred to the Shinnecock Canal as the inlet. The Shinnecock Canal was well known as such, and enough of a landmark to be identified without reference to a RR station two miles away!
[As an aside but along these same lines, I think it very possible (if not likely) that the article was referring to the entire body of water as an inlet, and not just the narrower first section The first part of it is very narrow and I am not sure if the fatter second part disqualifies it from being considered an inlet or not, or whether whoever came up with the description was familiar with exactly what an inlet leading to a pond and what was just an inlet! In fact, while it looks like it has been formalized somewhat through development, I still I think it is still a bit unclear just what this body of water is, whether a pond, bay, swamp, harbor, or "inlet." There is already a Cold Spring Harbor on Long Island which only adds to the confusion. Anyway, If "inlet'was meant to refer generally to the entire body of water, then it becomes quite clear that they are talking about the Sebonac Neck Property.]
As for the distance to the RR tracks from the course today it is about .35 miles. There is strip of the SHGC between it and the tracks, but of course Mike failed to mention that there was also a road leading to the Golf Ground Station and according to the location of the Shinnecock Inn on the overlay, it was less than 1/2 mile from there to the the Golf Ground Station.
To clarify my entire position on that snippet, I think Alvord leaked it to the press (in Brooklyn) to generate interest in his land, and he described pretty much all of his land...North of the tracks.
Maybe, but if so, then I think it more likely that what was meant was the inlet into Cold Spring, because the developer refers to it as "Cold Spring Bay Inlet" on the 1907 map! But that said, I think it just as likely that CBM told someone that the developer had agreed to sell hims land on the parcel stretching out along Peconic Bay with the westerly point near that inlet (or whatever that water is) and that it would adjoin SHGC and be readily accessible to the RR tracks without having to be right next to them. This would be consistent how the larger property was described in later articles and by CBM himself.
My conviction on this topic is based on my belief that the word "skirt(ed)" describes an extended border as opposed to a glancing touch. If you can convince me otherwise it might be a conversation.
Really? Because it doesn't say that the property stretched along the RR or even that the property "skirted along RR to the south." It says the land was "skirted by the Long Island Railroad to the South." As I understand it, the verb "to skirt" often times means to go around, or to narrowly avoid. The RR didn't pass through the land but it did narrowly avoid it.
Granted, sometimes "skirted" means stretched out along. But it also means "to narrowly miss" and that works as well or better here, especially when we consider that the land had already been described as stretching out along Peconic Bay! If it stretched along the RR as well, then then wouldn't it have been simpler to write that it stretched out along Peconic Bay to the north and the RR to the south? But it didn't. It stretched out along Peconic Bay to the north and was skirted, or narrowly missed, by the RR to the south. So it was north of the RR but not right on it.
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I don't think there is any way in hell the Canal offer was still alive in October of 1907. Even Mike was dating the Canal offer to June or July of 1906! What happened to that Mike?
The developer purchased the property in October of 1905 and CBM decided to go after land around then. By October 1907 the develeloper had been working on the project for about one year. CBM would have had to have been a flipping idiot to wait until a year into the development to try and buy land near the canal, right in the heart of the development! Call him what you will but he wasn't an idiot.