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Derek_L

The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« on: February 12, 2002, 09:23:29 PM »
I recently read a small blurp in a Minneapolis paper regarding the Town and Country Club in St. Paul, MN as being the nation's 2nd oldest course in continuous use.  Now I know the original Oakhurst Links on the east coast, I beleive maybe Massachusetts or New Hampshire has been called the oldest club in America, but I also know that Shinnecock is right up there in age, plus there are several Canadian courses that are in the late 1800's.  Not only have I read Oakhurst being the oldest, but I have read other's being the oldest too. Now back to the Town and Country Club, it was supposed founded in 1888, tomorrow or today, February 13, but that is not important.  Somewhere I read that Tillie did some design work on the Town and Country Club, now I know he didn't do the original design, as he was only 14 at the time.  So what is going on with so many courses claming they are the oldest?

Derek L ???
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Derek_L

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2002, 09:41:07 PM »
Shinnecock opened in 1931 I beleive, so it is not near one of the oldest.  Town and Country opened in 1893 and the Chicago Golf Club or Country Club opened in 1894.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Joel_Stewart

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2002, 10:05:21 PM »
Chicago is the first 18 hole course in the USA thus the oldest? Are the others originally 9 hole courses?
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APBernstein

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2002, 10:12:43 PM »
Oakhurst Links, located in White Sulpher Springs, WV (the same town as The Greenbrier), is/was the first established golf club in the United States in 1884.  The course has been restored to the 1884 state and is played with equipment that was used at that time.  Truely a great experience.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2002, 03:45:38 AM »
Oakhurst Links is one of the truly great golf experiences
available!

Playing with that old equipment is just a hoot!

If you ever get near the Greenbrier, this is a must-see.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

TEPaul

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2002, 04:01:29 AM »
It's my understanding that St Andrews in New York is the oldest "ongoing" golf CLUB in America although they may have moved the site slightly from where it originally began so obviously maybe it's not the oldest course.

There has been talk before about a golf course of some type in South Carolina that preceded everything in America by many years, possibly well over a hundred years or more.

Shinnecock's opening in 1931 was a redesign and enormous upgrade for a course existing previously on basically the same ground, although some of the holes were on the other side of Rte. 27. There are a few original holes that have been brought back recently from the original course to the right of the driveway and used for what, I'm not sure.

#7 is also a pre-Flynn redan, probably done by MacD/Raynor. The story is that MacD and Raynor wanted two redans on NGLA and they built #7 and were then informed that for some reason they had wandered off NGLA's property and onto Shinnecock's! Whoops! But Shinnecock said, Oh what the hell, it looks OK so just leave it there!
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Michael Stefanik

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2002, 04:16:39 AM »
I am not sure what year it opened but I believe Essex County Club is the oldest. I know that they have the oldest green in North America being on hole number 3 a good par 5.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul Richards

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2002, 05:00:46 AM »
Micheal:

The Greenbrier claims on its White course that IT has the
oldest green (or tee?) in use in America.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

BCrosby

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2002, 05:17:14 AM »
The Royal Montreal Club, founded in 1873, claims to be the oldest golf club in North America.

Oldest in US is St Andrews, Yonkers, NY, founded 1888.

I've seen a painting of golf being played in Charleston, SC about 1780.  My understanding is that there are also records of a club and a pretty good idea of where the course used to be.  Not much more than that is known.

Who knows, if they had spent more time on the golf course in South Carolina, we might have avoided the Civil War.  ;)
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2002, 05:52:15 AM »
Chicago Golf Club is the oldest PRIVATE club in the US.

Another one, nearby, is the Janesville Country Club in Janesville, WI. It claims to have been built around 1894 by Alexander Galbreath and is also one of the oldest PRIVATE clubs in the US.  Hope to get over there this season and check it out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

A_Clay_Man

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2002, 06:03:34 AM »
It's no surprise that there are some old courses but truely the 18 hole caviet is significant. Old del monte is the oldest west of the Mississippi still in contiguous operation. And Chicago is the oldest 18 holer.
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2002, 06:03:44 AM »
Along these lines, The Homestead's "Homestead" course's first tee is the oldest tee in continuous use from the original, or something like that.
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SPDB

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2002, 06:18:54 AM »
What's the story with Tacoma? I have heard that it was the first club founded on the pacific coast. Golfcourse.com indicates that it is a stanley thompson design, so i am assuming the 1894 design didn't survive. i'm intrigued though, anybody seen this course?
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Patrick Hitt

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2002, 06:41:55 AM »
Evan,
I believe Chicago Golf claims to be the oldest 18 hole GC in the US. It too has moved from the original 18 hole site in Downers Grove to it's current location in Wheaton. The course then was significantly redesigned again by Raynor - who took out many of the holes that favored CB's fade. Some of the original Chicago Golf became Belmont GC which still exists as a 9 holer with little or no remains of the original course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2002, 07:00:23 AM »
Patrick,

Thanks for that clarification...maybe one day we can ALL get this thing straight!  ;D ;)

Being a fellow Midwesterner (and me being a former Chicagoan)...have you ever heard anything about the Janesville CC course I mentioned?  It would be a quick trip from Dubuque over there, and at least for historical significance might be someplace neat to check out.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

RJ_Daley

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2002, 07:20:41 AM »
Ev, I seem to reember reading something along those lines about Janesville.  I thought C.B., was involved...

I also heard some lore about a golf club being found in some pioneer's personal effects in Nebraska that indicated he had brought the club when he emigrated there in 1860s, and that he may have laid out a course to amuse himself while sodbusting or tending cattle.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

David_Normoyle

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2002, 07:47:06 AM »
A_Clay_Man --

You may be right with Old Del Monte, but I was under the impression that a little-known muni from Colorado Springs, named Patty Jewett GC, was the oldest west of the Mississippi, being founded in 1898.
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Mike Erdmann

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2002, 09:41:42 AM »
Don't know about Tacoma in 1894, but Gearhart on the north Oregon coast dates back to 1892.  Unfortunately, a recent remodel and irrigation system did away with any of the links characteristics that may have remained.

Quote
What's the story with Tacoma? I have heard that it was the first club founded on the pacific coast. Golfcourse.com indicates that it is a stanley thompson design, so i am assuming the 1894 design didn't survive. i'm intrigued though, anybody seen this course?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Tyler Kearns

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2002, 09:56:04 AM »
Derek L.,
       i had the good fortune to play the Town & Country Club about 4-5 times back in 1995. from what i remember being told, is that the Town & Country Club was the second oldest course in the USA (established in the late 1880's) west of the Mississippi River. as far as the design is concerned, The Architects of Golf list it as a George McRee course, with renovation ensuing by Robert Foulis (routed Minikahda, and designed original Bellerive CC), Stan (not Stanley) Thompson and Dick Nugent. the course certainly has some quirkiness to it, opening 4-3-3, and finishing 3-5-5-5-3, giving it quite a unique feel. i would be interested to know whether Tillinghast did some work here?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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Tyler Kearns

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2002, 10:19:58 AM »
Patrick,
       you're right about C.B. Macdonald's work at Chicago. The original site of the Chicago GC was in Belmont, Il., and was the USA's FIRST 18-HOLE COURSE (9 holes designed by Macdonald). in 1895, the club moved to Wheaton, Il., where Macdonald designed all 18-holes. however, older courses did exist in the USA, namely the four other charter members of the USGA besides Chicago GC, St.Andrews GC in Yonkers-on-Hudson, NY., Shinnecock Hills GC in Southampton, NY., The Country Club in Brookline, Mass., and the Newport GC in Newport, R.I.
        the Newport & Shinnecock GC's were designed by William Davis originally, in 1894 & 1895 respectively. Newport being 9 holes, and Shinnecock being 12. The Country Club was designed by Willie Campbell in 1893 as a 9-hole course.
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john stiles

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2002, 10:56:49 AM »
Regarding a previous post,  I have read elsewhere that a golf club was formed in Charleston, SC in 1786 and a golf club formed in Savannah, GA in 1794. The clubs dissolved some 20 years later at about the same time.  As I remember, they have pretty much nailed down the dates from local accounts such as newspapers and shipping records.

Also,  I would like to add that  Palmetto Golf Club  (Aiken, SC) was founded in  1892  and still exists today on the same property although expanded from the original 3 or 4 hole course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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A_Clay_Man

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2002, 12:16:39 PM »
David Normoyle- Del Monte (old is thrown in by the locals) has it's start-up in '97 and celebrated it's centenial with a full aray of hyperbole including the not to miss Johnny Miller clinic.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick Hitt

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2002, 01:40:59 PM »
Evan,
Mabye Janesville could host a small midwest GCA outing. Not too far from Iowa or Chicago. I'm not sure if the course is long enough for Paul or Shivas but we could make them play with persimmon and balata.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Evan Fleisher

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Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2002, 02:10:03 PM »
Dave,

I am a "former" Chicagoan...moved out here to Dubuque a little over three years ago.  Lived in Chicago two separate times (Willowbrook in 1992, Oak Park from 1995-1996, and Bloomingdale from 1997-1998...our first house within walking distance to Medinah!!!).  Dubuque is about 3 hours away from Chicago due West.

Patrick (and other area golfers),

A GCA outing at Janesville would/could be very cool, hopefully we can pull something off this Spring/Summer.  It would definitely be an easy drive for me, Dick, and all you Chicago bretheren.  At 6,347 it does play kind of short...so maybe we make those guys play left-handed or something ???  ;D  I'd be happy to play it left-handed.

Here is a nice link to their website: http://www.jcc1894.com/index2.html
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:02 PM by -1 »
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Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Slag_Bandoon

Re: The Oldest Golf Courses In America
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2002, 02:32:39 PM »
Concerning western North America according to Jeff Shelley, a golf historian/chronicler etc. :

 Unsubstantiated rumors of golf at Fort Nisqually southwest of Tacoma could have been played in the 1840's; it was a Hudson's Bay Company area and this company was of Scottish origin.  Imagination takes over from there.
  Founded in 1894, Tacoma Country & Golf Club (not course) is the oldest continuously running American club west of the Mississipeepeei.

  Gearhart is the oldest continuosly operated golf course west of the Misipee. Still going strong and is a very fun course.

  The club first formed in the Pacific Northwest was British Columbia's 'Vancouver Country Club' in 1892.  That same year, Gearhart Golf Links in Oregon began with three holes.  Legend has it that several Scotsmen laid out four holes on Gearhart's dunes as far back as the 1880's.  This is where I (meaning me) embellish.->

  These Scotsmen had a full back 14 holes but since their whisky still operation was there they had to keep it quiet and thus there was no "writin'" or "minutes o' the meetin'".    There was one Irishman but they bannished him to Bandon (because he put an 'e' in whisky on the whisky label) where he quickly imported and grew gorse to prepare the land for future golf possibilities.  Now, every year, they dig him up and shoot him twice to make sure he's dead, then rebury him for next year's celebration.  (No one likes gorse except bunnies and masochists.)   Later, in California's incessent chasing of wanting to be like Oregon,  that state began selling catsup and oranges to finance golf courses but they ruint the whole idea of golf by putting microfreeways on all their courses.             This is all documented fact (in my world).  
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